31: Dump the Junk - Special Episode

[00:00:05] Shanenn Bryant: Today I have two very special guests. They are not only listeners of the Jealousy Junkie Podcast, but I was fortunate enough to spend six weeks with these ladies. They were beta testers for me for a program you will hear all about, but they were the ones that really helped shape and tweak this program. 

[00:00:33] Shanenn Bryant: And, I am fortunate enough to have them here with me today. We're just gonna have a great conversation ladies. Welcome to Jealousy Junkie.

[00:00:43] Daniela: So I have Molly 

[00:00:45] Molly: Hi, Shanenn.

[00:00:46] Shanenn Bryant: Hi. And I have Daniella.

[00:00:50] Daniela: Hey, Shanenn.

[00:00:52] Shanenn Bryant: Hi. I'm happy to see you both because it's been a little bit since we got together, and I was really loving the time that we were spending together. Having once a week just to get together with the two of you. We had a few other ladies that were in that group that were beta testing this program. So talk to me a little bit about the experience that you had, even just having other people to meet with once a week. 

[00:01:18] Daniela: I'll start off. Yeah, for sure. Having others, I think has been just the biggest game changer for me personally. I've always felt like, just the odd woman out in any scenario. And so being in a group of, individuals who are currently or have dealt with something similar and you know, having a space that's created, essentially a safe space, where we can openly talk about that with no judgment was huge for me. 

[00:01:49] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, because one of the things I hear a lot is we feel ashamed and embarrassed to talk about the issue, which of course, you know, that is part of my mission is to really get it out there and let people know that it's okay to talk about it. And that a lot of people experience it. So it may have taken, I don't know, I feel like two weeks before you guys put your guard down a little bit and like, okay, maybe it's okay to talk about this.

[00:02:16] Shanenn Bryant: Molly, how did you feel about the experience?

[00:02:19] Molly: I've actually been working on this problem for some years, and I think getting together with a group of women and meeting people with the same issues helped me more than anything. It made me realize, first of all, that I wasn't alone, and that there was hope and definitely hearing your story and knowing that you overcame this and something I wanted so badly to do gave me a lot of strength. And then, uh, Daniela and I have actually kind of become each other's support people. She's like my sponsor, you know. I message her when I'm having problems and she messages me and we share what we've learned and what we've tried and what we've done.

[00:02:58] Molly: And we wouldn't have gotten this connection without this group. And that's been, that's been huge.

[00:03:04] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, I love that you said sponsor because no joke, I have had a couple of people, um, there was a therapist that I interviewed and some other people that have said, oh my gosh, it's like you need a JA like jealousy anonymous, because there is lot that similar to AA and Alanon where it's like, you have the secret meetings and you really don't want anybody to know that you're attending those meetings and everybody has to keep it quiet. You know, you can't go to the grocery store and say, oh, Molly was in the JA meeting last week. So I don't know, that might be a thing at some point, but, definitely I think the group atmosphere seemed to, like I said, it took you guys maybe a couple weeks to let down your guard, but then once it was like, you could tell.

[00:03:52] Shanenn Bryant: It was just having that energy from the other person and hearing their experiences was definitely, a nice change to have somebody to talk to.

[00:04:01] Molly: Absolutely.

[00:04:03] Shanenn Bryant: So, Daniela, talk to me a little bit about the first time you noticed that you had some jealousy and what was happening in your life. What was going on when you kind of first started to notice? 

[00:04:18] Daniela: So moment of vulnerability here, right? Like that's the other part of the program here is learning to really put yourself out there and, admit things that I think for me personally, I've not wanted to vocalize. You know, again, out of shame, out of embarrassment. So, I think the first time I realized it probably going, dating back to one of my first, I guess, serious relationships, um, 10, 15 years ago now, which is really sad to admit, right, that it started that early.

[00:04:48] Daniela: So, I mean, going back to my first, significant other first partner. and it was just something simple like, I just didn't like other females talking to them. And if I saw them giggle, I would think like, oh, they're flirting. who are they talking about? Is it, is there? something wrong with me?

[00:05:05] Daniela: Does he like her? Does, you know, what are the interests there? But it's something that has evolved and has become harder and harder to, to try to control. And you know, I, I always wonder, right, if I would've done something then, which I was much younger and everything happens for a reason, but had I done something much earlier, maybe I wouldn't, wouldn't be where I'm at now, or I would, you know, be fully on the other side.

[00:05:31] Shanenn Bryant: And I think that is true for a lot of people. Molly, I know that you'll probably attest to this too, of it just goes on for so long before we realize it, right? And I think too, a lot of it is, for the most part, we're only realizing it in relationships because as I've said before, when we're single, we're not noticing that we are jealous so much.

[00:05:57] Shanenn Bryant: It's when we're really in those relationships. And I think sometimes we go oh, is it just this relationship or this person? And then it may take us, you know, two, three, who knows how many people or how many relationships before we realize, oh....

[00:06:12] Daniela: The problem. 

[00:06:12] Shanenn Bryant: This is, this is me.

[00:06:14] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Oh, this is me. 

[00:06:16] Daniela: Yeah. 

[00:06:16] Shanenn Bryant: I'm the problem, not them necessarily. Molly, when did you first realize you had some jealousy issues?

[00:06:29] Molly: You know, I knew that I had feelings of jealousy. I didn't realize it was such an issue for me until most recently, but I, I had experienced extreme jealousy even as a child when my parents took in a younger foster child. I was the youngest and I was the baby, and they brought her in and I hated her.

[00:06:52] Molly: I was so jealous of her. I would do the meanest things to her. I was nine years old. 

[00:06:56] Molly: Time went on and these feelings would flare up occasionally. But in the last three years, I think with being home all the time with Covid, with my husband bringing his work home, it's had time to just ruminate, and it has just developed into this monster.

[00:07:13] Molly: But I had just blips here and there where maybe 20 years ago, cuz I had been married a long time. Twenty years ago, there was an incident. It came and went. And then five years later there's another incident and it came and went. So it was sort of like lying dormant in me and I was so busy I didn't have time to think about what my husband was doing.

[00:07:34] Molly: And like I said, it's only been in this last three years where we're stuck at home together. Um, he's still choosing to work from home, and he brought everybody into the home with him basically you know, virtually. So, mine has really, really been at its worst for the last three years.

[00:07:53] Shanenn Bryant: We talk a lot about some of the habits that we do when we're feeling really jealous; some of those action habits or direct habits that we do. You really struggle with one in particular, but it's also a win for you. Um, because your husband works at home, and has meetings in the home, can you talk about some of the things that you were doing?

[00:08:21] Molly: Yeah, so I hadn't had access to who he worked with and because of my couple of jealous episodes in the past over his coworkers, 

[00:08:31] Molly: and I had no idea that he worked with hundreds of women because he works, you know, he works in a large company. And so when he started working from home, I started going through his calendar, his email. I started listening to his meetings. Eventually we put a ring camera in his office, and he went along with it to try to make me more comfortable.

[00:08:54] Molly: My psychiatrist had recommended that we, try to desensitize me. That didn't work. Um, you know, to expose me to more and more of the conversations. And that really wasn't helpful. But but I appreciate, you know, that was one thing to try. 

[00:09:10] Molly: So after the ring camera and going on his phone and looking at all his messages and all his text messages and getting deep into what was going on. I went back years on his calendar to see who he had in every meeting. I got so obsessive compulsive with it and wanted to know everything. And I know we'll talk about it later, but you know, when you talk about our beliefs system, our beliefs, I could find something in everything that confirmed what I thought. But it really was not, it was innocent. But that was a big issue for me was the phone, the camera. We have location tracking, but It's not, it's not to see who he is with.

[00:09:53] Shanenn Bryant: That's one thing that gets really tough when we get into these loops of we wanna know all the details, but then we react not well. When we hear the details, which then makes our partner not want to tell us the details, then we think they're lying or hiding from us. So it just becomes this vicious cycle.

[00:10:19] Shanenn Bryant: And you're right Molly, and I'm sure that Daniela can attest to this, but when we look and when we search, like you said, we can find anything. We can make something out of nothing. What does that emoji mean? Why did they send it then? You know? And we've talked about that before about it really just keeps that going.

[00:10:41] Shanenn Bryant: And instead of feeling better, it actually makes you more anxious.

[00:10:48] Shanenn Bryant: Daniella. Do you experience the same? 

[00:10:51] Daniela: Yes, I like had to stop and like jot down my notes cuz I think Molly, the, the word obsessive honestly is what comes to mind and I a hundred percent it resonates and it's you know, being that detective. Shanenn, I remember in one of your earlier episodes, you talked about, um, I can't remember how you had worded it, but essentially like this is a full-time job, like in itself, like trying to find things that either are there or are not there, or trying to understand things rather than just either having that conversation, that hard needed conversation or picking and choosing what to let go of and what to really focus your energy.

[00:11:30] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, because it's like, what is the answer that we're looking for? Right? Because when we look and we don't find anything, we keep looking. It's like how many times do you have to look before you feel like you have enough evidence that nothing is happening to stop looking? Right? 

[00:11:49] Molly: Exactly. 

[00:11:50] Shanenn Bryant: Daniella, explain to me what it's like for your partner, 

[00:11:54] Daniela: Yeah. Yeah. it builds a lot of distrust then, like both ways. So, being upset and bothered at not knowing the level of detail that I feel I want to know or need to know. Then creates for like just a hostile relationship where, you know, Okay, well, you're not happy with what I'm telling you, so I'm not gonna tell you anything at all.

[00:12:16] Daniela: Right? Because at what point, like, does it even matter. Whether I say that this is what I did today, or this isn't what I did, you're gonna read into it however you want to, and so there's no point. It's wasted energy. It's wasted time and, and it's time you can't get back. And so that creates, um, for me, it creates even more insecurities then because it's like, man, I just, I essentially burnt my own bridge, right?

[00:12:38] Daniela: Like instead of leaving that line of communication opened, I blocked it off because you know, it's, damn if you do, damn, if you don't type thing.

[00:12:47] Shanenn Bryant: I remember a beautiful moment during our six weeks together, when you guys were going through the course, and one of the other participants was talking about wanting her partner to trust her again. And both of you were like, oh my gosh. Yes. Because she was saying, He is so upset with me and doesn't trust that he can share his feelings, tell her anything that's going on with his life because of her reaction.

[00:13:22] Daniela: Yeah, it, it, it goes into like being that safe space. Um, and I think that was something that we also talked about at the time, right? Like, when you come home from, from work or from wherever, I wanna be that safe space. I want you to, one, want to come back home. Um, look forward to coming home, right?

[00:13:42] Daniela: Not look at it I like, oh, I gotta go home, right? Like, oh, it's that time of the day. Or, what is she going to question me about today, type thing? And that goes to the level of trust and, and rebuilding what has been damaged.

[00:13:56] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-hmm. It gets, it starts to feel very controlling. I know that was one of the things that my husband said to me, and it just, it crushed me because he was like, I have to change who I am because of your jealousy. I have to act differently. Molly, does your husband at times feel like he has to do that or has he, have you guys experienced anything similar to that?

[00:14:24] Molly: I think so because he's, um, he's complained about that. And then I, you know, and I feel, I feel how much pressure I'm putting on him to change and I try to remind myself this is, this is the man I fell in love with, this really friendly, outgoing man who is kind and nice to everyone, and I'm asking him to, to reel in a little bit when he interacts with other women.

[00:14:44] Molly: And he is just friendly. I don't even know how to describe, he's just a really nice guy and so, I wanted him to just stop a couple of things. And I said, you know, I asked him not to have one-on-one lunches with women. I said, just do that for me. And, um, he used a, a nickname for women, he would call them sister, but he also calls all the men, brother.

[00:15:11] Molly: So, I just said that's too familiar. And this is when he was at a lower level then, you know, I don't think he would do it at his level now, but I said that's too familiar. I just didn't want them to be that friendly and, I think that was really hard on him, that he feels like when he's at home and he's in a meeting and he, I'm within earshot, he feels like he's kind of walking on eggshells.

[00:15:34] Molly: Like, am I gonna say something wrong? Am I gonna say something too nice? And I can't hear what the women are saying back, but you know, I'm sure if, if I could hear them too, he'd be really worried that they might laugh too much because when I was watching on the camera, thankfully is gone out of his office now,

[00:15:52] Molly: I would notice they flipped their hair too much. They smiled too much. What are they laughing at? I noticed every reaction to everything he said, and it was ridiculous. But I did, I kind of wanted him to not be as nice, and that's not fair.

[00:16:10] Shanenn Bryant: Right. it's easier when we're not in the moment to understand or to think through that kinda maybe we're, we are being a little bit irrational. But in the heat of the moment and when we're really in that uncomfortable spot, we don't see that. It's very difficult to see like, oh my gosh, you know what this is doing to them, versus you're just trying to make yourself feel better.

[00:16:38] Shanenn Bryant: So however, that's gonna be, I just wanna, I just wanna feel better and not feel uncomfortable. And so if they have to change to make me feel comfortable, then that's what has to happen.

[00:16:49] Molly: For me, he was willing to do that because like I said, he's a people pleaser. He wanted me to be happy, but It's been hard for him and it makes him feel resentful. 

[00:16:58] Shanenn Bryant: Talk to me about conversations you've had with your partner about jealousy, like how have some of those went? Not when you are jealous, but when you're trying to explain to them how you're feeling.

[00:17:11] Shanenn Bryant: How are you having those conversations? Daniela?

[00:17:13] Daniela: I'm in my head trying to go back in that time to, to remember just like the on his face. And it's interesting because you said, how are the conversations going when you're not in the heat of the moment? I think that's the key phrase there, right? Because that is a very different conversation when I'm in the moment when I'm reacting versus when I'm proactively trying to explain things.

[00:17:36] Daniela: And I will say that that's one of the things that has been huge from being and participating in the Dump to Junk program is that I'm much more aware. You've brought things to my attention that I didn't know I was doing and so that's helped me to articulate when I'm not in the heat of the moment and explain, you know, like, hey, I didn't realize that I've had this issue for as long as I have.

[00:18:00] Daniela: Like I've known it's there, but I didn't realize like it's all tied together. Um, and trying to share that with him so that he also understands like, one, it's not you. And it wasn't, it didn't just start with you, unfortunately. But it is something that I've been dealing with for years and years and years.

[00:18:17] Daniela: And so it's gonna take me a lot of time and a lot of work and patience to overcome to unlearn a lot of these habits that I've turned to, taught myself, and learned over the years. For him it's sometimes eye opening. Um, I see him digesting a lot of the information, just kind of like letting it sink in.

[00:18:38] Daniela: Like, oh, that's, that's interesting. That makes sense. but a lot more of, I think just trying to really imagine what that's like. And I think that's where we disconnect because for someone who hasn't or doesn't experience jealousy or that this is, these are uncharted waters, right? They, they, they don't understand.

[00:18:58] Daniela: it's like, why do you have a problem with this kind of get over it type thing? And so it's really, it's still something that I'm working on to, to really communicate because. I mean, and this is, this goes past, just my partner, Like friends who don't experience jealousy. Like, what do you mean you don't, like, why do you, why, why does that bother you?

[00:19:17] Daniela: Why are you upset? Because I'm like, you're not upset. You wouldn't be upset. I mean, little things like that, that, that the other person just can't, it doesn't resonate. And I, you know, Molly mentioned it like, we have built this bond where if I need to vent about something and I just need some understanding, I need no judgment.

[00:19:37] Daniela: I know she's my person right now. She will hear me out and say, yeah, you know what, I did that too. Or, I've been through that and then like, we kind of bounce off ideas. And for me that's been huge because I can kind of like calm back down or, you know, kind of reset my mindset again.

[00:19:53] Daniela: Yeah, so going back to it's something that's still a work in progress. 

[00:19:56] Shanenn Bryant: It's so interesting, and I love this because if it's not Molly in the throes of jealousy, she can walk you down, Daniela, all day long. Like she can be like, no, this is right. Like it if it's not me…

[00:20:11] Molly: We've had those moments too where I've been through it and I'm, I'm old enough to be her mama I mean, we have such parallel lives. Everything she's going through, almost I've gone through and so we can go back and, and one of our issues was, and this is off topic, but one of our issues is that we both started out best friends with our husbands and that's how we met. 

[00:20:33] Molly: That's how we became partners. And so that's why friendships bother me so much, I think. But when she was having something going on, I said, go back and be his friend. Go back to the kind of friend you were to him when you first met. And that's because that was one of the things I had to do is start thinking, how would I treat a friend?

[00:20:53] Molly: What would I do for a friend today? You know, I would, you know, I would make him some coffee. I would do these things because I thought, I'm gonna treat him like I would a friend. Try to be his friend again, and that was really helpful. So just things like that. Or she's experienced it and she can tell me what she did or you know, so writing things in the notes on our phone instead of having them come outta our mouth.

[00:21:16] Shanenn Bryant: Right. Yeah. Love, be their friend again! So powerful because even if you didn't start out, as friends, you build a friendship through dating. Hopefully there's some friendship there if you end up, getting married or, or having a life together. And so I think that's just beautiful. Going back to like just be a friend. What would a friend do right now? Support them. Hear them out. Care for them, all that stuff. 

[00:21:48] Shanenn Bryant: Beautiful, Molly. So Daniela, you were talking about, okay yes, the conversation is very different when I have a clear mind and I can communicate things differently.

[00:21:59] Shanenn Bryant: Molly talked to me about how the conversation goes in the heat of the moment at times.

[00:22:05] Molly: You know, I feel like when I have a really extreme jealous moment, you know, it, it's almost like a fugue moment. I mean, I feel like, and I know that everybody says you can control your actions. You can control your words. I feel out of control. And so my ears are ringing. My chest hurts. I can hear my heart throbbing in my ears. My mouth goes dry, my throat goes dry. I'm not even, I don't even feel like myself.

[00:22:32] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. 

[00:22:33] Molly: It's like a monster rises up inside me. I, I mean, not that I wouldn't, I've never hit or hurt or done anything but my mouth. I mean, my mouth is mean and it comes out with some snarky things. And so in the heat of the moment, it's really hard to talk about. I usually end up in tears and I usually end up by saying, no, I'm sorry. It's all on me, but this is how I feel. Not one conversation goes, well, if I'm in the throes of a jealous moment. I don't have it. I'm not this person that you see in front of you at all, like not at all.

[00:23:09] Molly: And I'm very ashamed of the person I become, but it, yeah, conversations don't work that way.

[00:23:14] Shanenn Bryant: Well, that's a whole other cycle too, right? Like, okay, now I'm super embarrassed of the way that I acted in the things that I said, and I'm really ashamed and feel like, who am I? Who is this person? Like you said, this monster that's coming out that I feel like I have no control over it.

[00:23:34] Molly: You know, one of the things I told myself in more recent weeks in thinking about all this is if I saw a man treating a woman the way I treat my husband as far as control, I would call him abusive. 

[00:23:48] Shanenn Bryant: Mm. 

[00:23:49] Molly: That kind of hurt to think that I'm emotionally abusing my husband by treating him this way.

[00:23:55] Molly: And it was just like a light went off like this is, this is abusive. If I saw a man doing this, I would be really upset, and yet I hadn't applied it to myself.

[00:24:05] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-hmm. I know you guys can't see, but Daniella's like, yes. 

[00:24:09] Daniela: It, it's that light bulb that's going off for sure. And it's, it's the, the moment of truth, right? When you acknowledge I don't wanna say the evil, but essentially the evil. That, that's in that, if someone says, when you go to the doctors and they ask you like if there's any abuse in the home, you're like, oh no.

[00:24:24] Daniela: Yeah. Cuz there's no physical abuse. But when we stop to think about it, it, there is emotional abuse. And that's something that nobody wants to admit, me included. And so I think to refrain from thinking that and trying to shift like an excuse my behavior and my way of thinking.

[00:24:41] Daniela: But you know, I, I, I think about my children, and if someone were to treat one of my children this way, like I would have a huge problem with that and I would call that abuse. So it's calling it out in myself and like acknowledging it and stopping because I don't wanna be that person that's not ok.

[00:24:59] Shanenn Bryant: We were able to touch a little bit on that self-awareness piece and really helps to open your eyes to how this is driving your life and in those situations cause jealous people are the kindest, sweetest, most of them have just the best heart, and it's because they want everything to be great and they love so hard and so much, but they can be some asses. Like they can just be right nasty people in those moments.

[00:25:35] Molly: I have said some words, I have called women some names that I am so ashamed of because I've never said those words in my life, and they have just come out like I didn't even know I had 'em in my head. And I kind of bunch 'em together and they're a babababababa and by the time I'm done, it's horrible and I always thought of myself as a feminist and supportive of other women and jealous has just not done anything good for me.

[00:26:04] Shanenn Bryant: No, I cringe thinking of some of the looks or comments or just, yeah, the snarky things that I've done to women just because I thought that they were attractive. Like that's all they did was

[00:26:20] Molly: Be attractive. Yeah. 

[00:26:22] Shanenn Bryant: That's it. Weren't even doing anything. Um, so I'm glad we talked about the self-awareness piece. I did wanna ask and just because I do have the new course coming out. 

[00:26:36] Shanenn Bryant: You guys were pivotal in helping to pull some of the things from Dump the Junk that we went through, that really helped. So do you all mind sharing maybe something that we went through in those six weeks that you felt has changed or that you are doing that's helping with some of that jealous?

[00:27:01] Daniela: I think looking through and discussing the habit loop and discussing the action habits and knowing how to look at that loop and make goals out of it to reframe your mindset. I think that that has been huge for me. There were certain things that I wasn't aware that I was doing.

[00:27:20] Daniela: Like it just, it was normal. It was natural to me. And so now being more aware of like, what was my, what compulsions do I have, right? How did I react? How did I open my mouth? What was my routine like if something happened and how to like slow down, take a step back and set essentially, or create new habits. Like instead of reacting to this or instead of saying something that I would normally say, you know, just slowing down.

[00:27:46] Daniela: I mean, I remember, and this probably mixes with different things, but I mean, instead of saying something smart, giving a compliment to like stop yourself and it almost like buys you time to really gather your brain. 

[00:27:59] Daniela: the acronym O.N.E for me has been huge. Like, I, I say O.N.E, O.N.E, O.N.E all the time and I'm like, just open to a new experience, open to a new, even though I don't always spell one with an e at the end. Sometimes it's, it's open to a new reason. Like it's O.N.R like this is a new reason. it's not what I'm thinking. That has been super, just super helpful for me and just assuming the worst and sometimes, I kind of fall off the wagon and have to go back to basics.

[00:28:29] Shanenn Bryant: Molly and I were talking about that earlier because it's going to happen, right? I mean, you guys just heard my experience in Costa Rica. I had a mini meltdown. I'm thankful for it, but in the moment, I sure as heck was not thankful for having that meltdown on the beach. But yeah, we're going to have those setbacks.

[00:28:50] Shanenn Bryant: I think the important thing is like, not going into it thinking, I'm never in my life gonna feel this way again. I'm never gonna be jealous of anyone and everything's gonna be wonderful and great, but how different your life can be when it's not driving your life. It's not all consuming. It's not everything that you're thinking about.

[00:29:12] Shanenn Bryant: You're spending time on yourself. You're actually interested in other things. And Molly, even when you said I was too busy before to worry about what my husband was doing. That's actually the place we wanna be. Right? I'm worried about my own stuff. I don't need to track them down and worry about them and think about them all the time.

[00:29:32] Shanenn Bryant: I should be focused on, on me and what I'm doing and what I want and how my life's going. What about for you, Molly? Anything stand out for you?

[00:29:41] Molly: I think, and it's like I can remember so clearly when I heard the first podcast, and I was driving home from shopping, and I couldn't believe I found it. And one of the first things that you talked about doing was giving up different action habits. And I looked at, that's when I came home and I took the camera outta the room.

[00:29:59] Molly: You know, it was like, I've gotta stop doing these one thing at a time. And when I looked at it as something that I could do little by little that I didn't have to do it all at once, I didn't have to be perfect, but I could make some positive changes. I think that was really big for me. And you know, it took me, I mean, it was a long time between dropping one action habit and dropping the next, I mean, we're talking a few months, butI'm like, it's okay.

[00:30:23] Molly: Yeah. It's like, but I can, I can do this. And I think one of the other things that really helped me that we did, that I didn't expect, I didn't think about this so much, was doing the timeline where we put highs and lows during our life and trying to figure out where all this came from and, and I always thought that I had sort of a little bit of an idealistic childhood. And I started doing those highs and lows and I went mm-hmm, not so much. You know, you start really thinking about traumatic things and I'm like, I've got trauma. Never thought I was a person who had trauma, but I looked at it, you know, when you look at it from another standpoint as an adult and you look at what this child was going through that's trauma and, and looking at how that affected me. I, had watched, Brene Brown's Atlas of the Heart, and I was so just hit with her definition of jealousy versus envy and that, you know, jealousy being that you are afraid something's gonna take something, someone will take something away from you versus envy as you want something someone else has.

[00:31:34] Molly: And I, that's just been what's in my head ever since, you know, whenever I have a jealous moment, I think, what am I afraid of here? Is it afraid that someone's gonna replace me? Someone's gonna take something away from me. Because I don't really think my husband's ever gonna be unfaithful if he hasn't been in 40 years, he's not gonna be now, but I'm still jealous. 

[00:31:54] Molly: So, you know. But yeah, that timeline was really, really helpful and, and very eye-opening. 

[00:32:01] Shanenn Bryant: You actually came up with, that you shared with the group, about how you were able to see when you were working early on and how that's relating to now with your husband working with women. Can you, do you mind sharing that a little bit? 

[00:32:19] Molly: of course. So, you know, when. I, I think that it even goes back further. When I was a child, I had some experiences with older cousins that were less than ideal and always sort of feeling that men kind of used women, you know?

[00:32:35] Molly: And, that we were only good for one thing and going into my job and working then with men, I was 15, got a job at a fast-food restaurant. 

[00:32:46] Molly: Our bosses there would say terrible things to us and, and snap us in the rear end and with, with a wet towel or just their hand.

[00:32:55] Molly: And they would smack us and they would tease us and talk about the most horrible things. And, we'd get a, we'd go to get A cloth to clean the counters and we'd say, where's the rag? And he'd go, these are cleaning cloths. A rag is what you wear between your legs. Like that's the kind of things these bosses were saying to 15-year-old girls at that time.

[00:33:13] Molly: And now it just horrifies me and to look back on that was my experience. And then going on to the next job and having the same experience. And fortunately, I've really only worked with women since I became an adult, so I haven't had to, you know, I haven't experienced that. So to me, that's my memory of the workplace and men and women.

[00:33:36] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-hmm. And now your husband is in the workplace working with women, and so you're tying that to that's the way that it is, right?

[00:33:47] Molly: And my husband would never do or say any of those things. He's, he's very much a gentleman, but that was our limiting beliefs, that men can only see women as a sexual object. And that if they're around them long enough and they become friends with them, then it's gonna proceed to the next thing and the next step.

[00:34:07] Molly: And that's definitely a limiting belief of mine that I'm still working on.

[00:34:11] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. That connection that you made early on because of a couple of different environments that you were in, and that was it. Like that connection was there. That's the story for you that you have then been telling yourself for all of this time that that's how all men interact with women that way. 

[00:34:32] Daniela: That limiting belief one is huge though. You mentioned that Shanenn in one of our, in one of our sessions where, what are some of those things? And the biggest one that stood out was, women can't be friends with men, men can't be friends with women. And I started thinking, well, is that, is that always true?

[00:34:48] Daniela: Right. Is that, is that true for me? Like, can I not be friends with, with a male? And I can, so then why would it be different for my spouse? Why would it be different for anyone else? But I, it's like trying to remind yourself that, that that is a belief. It's not a fact. It's not true. And it's not the case every time. But it's hard when you are around so many people and social media doesn't help, right? Where, there's, there's things being put out there. You're seeing things. Whether it's icons on tv, on social media, whatever it is, and, um, or, you know, people in your circle that were once married, that are now divorced because of infidelity or whatever it is. Like, you, you almost like can't help but think that. It's just so, it's just so 

[00:35:33] Molly: Yeah. It's like a virus you don't wanna catch, you know, that your marriage is not gonna be healthy because of the ones around you.

[00:35:41] Shanenn Bryant: And we talked about one of the reasons that it's like that cuz we don't take that inventory of what are those beliefs that, what are those things I'm believing right now? We don't take inventory enough. It's probably been, who knows how long, if ever, that we sat down and really took inventory.

[00:36:03] Shanenn Bryant: Like what are those things that I think that may not be always true? Like I'm putting them in this black and white box or putting them in.. It's either over here or over there, or this is absolutely true or not true. And how long has it been since we thought about those types of things, right?

[00:36:22] Shanenn Bryant: Um, anything that you want to share with someone who's listening to this, who's experiencing jealousy? Maybe they just found the podcast, they're just realizing some of the things that you know, you guys are a little bit ahead. Any words of wisdom or things that wanna tell them to comfort them? 

[00:36:49] Molly: I think mostly just that you're not alone. You are not the only one feeling this and make some connections. Get involved with the Facebook group or, or any other kind of work group that you can get together with and, make some connections with some other women going through the same thing and support each other.

[00:37:08] Molly: You know, it's like this isn't a group where we say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's horrible. This is a group where we say, what, what can we do better? How can we fix this? What's, you know, and, and we all, I I, I put this on myself. This is my problem and I have to remind my husband daily, this is my problem.

[00:37:30] Molly: I'm working on it. I'm sorry you're, you're caught up in it. But again, I think the support group has been probably the most helpful for me, you know? Actually hearing other women say that they have the same issues was huge. And so get involved. 

[00:37:50] Shanenn Bryant: And I love that too, because that Facebook group, when I created it, it wasn't a place to go and like, just like, yes, venting in a way of like, here's what's going on, but not in the. you should leave him. And I would never stand for that. And it's more of giving a second, have somebody else that's going to be able to look at it a little bit clearer than you are looking at it in that moment.

[00:38:14] Shanenn Bryant: And so I think that that's the best way that we can support each other inside that group of, I know that you're hot and you know, super-heated right now, so let me be your clear mind and maybe pull self-awareness into the response or, you know, letting you look at things a different way.

[00:38:34] Daniela: I totally agree with that, right? I think finding your person or your people is essentially like my biggest, just my biggest advice. Um, You know, one thing that I shared in our Dump the Jump, group, and, and just in our team, I feel like we're a team here, um, was what I was doing, which was like journaling in my phone.

[00:38:53] Daniela: I found journaling to be very helpful, but I wasn't always in front of my pen and paper, and sometimes, just the, the busy day to day. I didn't have time to like sit here and, and jot down things. But one thing I always have is my phone, and so opening up my notes and literally whatever I would say otherwise, when I'm in the heat of the moment, whatever is upsetting or pissing me off, I am like talking to my phone and I'm like just tight, tight, tight type.

[00:39:19] Daniela: Whether I'm, in the moment if I have to look away, you know, this was my like, I guess coping way. Like Shanenn, you mentioned like at one point, walking away, going to the bathroom, trying to like get yourself together. And so for me, this was my like getting myself together. I would take my phone out, jot down whatever it is.

[00:39:37] Daniela: It, it didn't make sense sometimes since sometimes I was yelling. There was exclamation points, there were emojis. I mean, if I could probably take pictures of what I was upset on, I probably would in add them there. But you know, again, it was just like my, my virtual journaling and it really was an outlet. It still is.

[00:39:55] Daniela: It's, it's really an outlet for me that if something, he said at the moment or just a smart comment that I wanted to make it, it was my way of knowing, like I can take that back because I didn't say that out loud. And if there's something that's still upsetting me, then I wanna allow myself time to cool off, whether it's a couple days, and if it's still weighing on me, then I can take that in a calmly, more efficient way to my spouse, right? Like, hey, this hap, you said this the other day, this really upset me. Let's talk about it, whatever it might be. But that has been, you know, that and having honestly, like my, my sponsor here has been huge. I've, I've, I've deemed Molly my sponsor here, but like, you know, seriously, because putting myself out there to begin with was very intimidating. It's, it's, again, it's that shame, the embarrassment of like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna out myself, type thing. And, and we talked about that with you, Shanenn, where, you know, it takes courage, to admit, I'm dealing with this right now.

[00:40:55] Daniela: And when you finally do put yourself out there, there's this weight lifted of, you're not the only one. There are others who are going through it or who have been through it. So that also means that there's, there's hope. There's hope that things will get better. And then there's that reminder that you're also gonna have those setbacks, right?

[00:41:14] Daniela: And it's just, it's like how you come back. That's what matters.

[00:41:19] Molly: When you said setbacks, I thought it was actually so nice that you were able to share your setback Shanenn and let us know that even when you're doing really well, there may be a setback, but you can come right back from it. So I just wanted to say that, that that was super helpful.

[00:41:33] Shanenn Bryant: Uh. Well, thank you. And I think what a beautiful. place to end this conversation. I wanna tell you, you both are so super special to me. I really have enjoyed getting to know you both and, thank you so much for having the courage to come on here and just share your stories and your experiences and, you're certainly helping other people.

[00:42:00] Shanenn Bryant: So you two are extremely special to me. Thank you so much for being here. 

[00:42:05] Daniela: Thanks for having us.

[00:42:06] Molly: Thank you Shanenn.