Ask Your Partner Better Questions w/ Topaz Adizes EP 79

Podcast Introduction:

Topaz Adizes is my guest today and he spent over a decade exploring human emotion and intimacy through watching more than 1200 conversations that he and his team crafted. In his design studio, he also wrote a book called “12 questions for love, a guide to intimate conversations and deeper relationships.” 

And in this, he reveals how every relationship can be deepened through these 12 very carefully crafted questions featured in his Emmy award-winning documentary series. Yes, that's what it's called “The And”. It's super cool watching these conversations. Not only does he describe in the episode why he named it that, but he also gives some really good information that he's learned through watching these more than 1200 conversations about how we can pose our questions in the conversations that we're having. You know, how can we pose the question to be in the benefit of the relationship? 

It's so powerful. I love this episode. I hope you enjoy it too. I'm sorry. I was just getting over, being sick. So you can hear I'm a little nasally. Sorry about that. But he makes up for it so it's so good. Coming up, Topaz Adizes. 

[00:00:00] Shanenn Bryant: Welcome Topaz.

[00:00:01] Topaz Adizes: Hey Shanenn, it's great to be on. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:04] Shanenn Bryant: You are such an interesting person I just talked about all of your accolades and all the things you've done, but one of the things I would love for you to really explain in your own words is the AND.

[00:00:18] Shanenn Bryant: One, it's such an interesting name, and I'd love to hear why “The And” and talk about it a little bit.

[00:00:26] Topaz Adizes: So, well, the AND is about the space between. Because the relationship is not you or I, us or them. It's you and I, us and them. So that's it. It's about what connects us. It's that, it's the conjunction, it's the relationship, the and. And so that's why we named the project The And. It's illuminating the space between, if you've seen our other videos, you know how we do that.

[00:00:46] We bring two people in a room; we face them together. We film them with three cameras. So, you're always seeing at the very least both faces at the same time, the speaker and the listener. And that illuminates the connection, illuminates the relationship, illuminates the and. That's why we call it The And.

[00:01:02] Shanenn Bryant: Yes, and you have a book, 12 Questions for Love, and that's what this is based on, right? And so, the questions in these videos of The And are so amazing. One of them in particular I just loved, and it was, "If I lost my memory, what's the first thing you'd tell me about us?"

[00:01:21] And I was like, oh! Oh!

[00:01:23] Topaz Adizes: It's great.

[00:01:25] Shanenn Bryant: So good!

[00:01:26] Topaz Adizes: Yeah, I think what we've learned from, the book is based off of doing The And for 10 years and it's over 1200 conversations that my team and I have held a space for people to have these conversations, all kinds, not just romantic couples, but family, best friends, sibling, everything.

[00:01:40] And what we've learned is that really to have a cathartic conversation, to have a really great conversation, you need two things, the space and really well constructed questions. So that's what we've learned from it. I think it's interesting that we take our most close knit, intimate relationships for granted and we don't ask really interesting questions.

[00:02:05] Because even though there's so many nutrients there for us to explore, but we shy away from that or we assume we know the other person so well so we actually don't explore the relationships that are closest to us and when we do, we get so much energy and vitality from it because we're exploring what's closest to us, what's most intimate, what's most vulnerable, and there's a lot of energy there.

[00:02:28] There's a lot of positivity that can come.

[00:02:31] Shanenn Bryant: Isn't that a little bit where we get in trouble with our relationships too is when we think we know the other person so well, we're like, oh, I know that I know what they're going to say in response to this. I know how they're thinking. I know what they're doing.

[00:02:43] Topaz Adizes: Yeah. We're all trying to create a sense of comfort, which we confuse for safety, let’s just not confuse between safety and discomfort. You can have uncomfortable conversations in a safe relationship. And I think that by asking uncomfortable questions gives you an opportunity to make that relationship even stronger and more resilient and more fulfilling.

[00:03:04] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Because I think a lot of times, especially for someone who's listening to this podcast, because of their fear, they really have a tight grip on who they their partner and the relationship in terms of this is what I, I'm keeping it in these constraints of this because that's, as you said, that's what's comfortable.

[00:03:24] That's how I feel safe if I know everything that's going on or if I'm controlling all of this. But really, you're saying the healthiest relationships of those are those where we can go, Hey, I'm going to let loose and I'm going to ask these really, thought provoking questions to my partner. That's what's going to create that intimacy.

[00:03:46] Topaz Adizes: But I just want to, the word let loose can be, we don't want to weaponize questions against our partner because if we put them against the wall, they're not going to respond in an expansive way, in an open way. We're not actually going to create an opportunity for vulnerability. When I say let loose, they have to be well constructed questions.

[00:04:06] My team and I have realized, for us, there's five things that make a well-constructed question in the context of a relationship.

[00:04:13] One is don't make it a binary question. Do you love me? Yes, no. I love you. End of story. So don't, don't make a, if, if the question often starts with a "do," the answer is a yes or no. If you're going to ask a question with a do, end it with a why or why not. Or don't ask a do and say how, why, do you feel, right? Don't ask binary questions. Second is, second one is asking questions that acknowledge the relationship. That's it. Instead of saying, Shanenn, what do you think about jealousy?

[00:04:46] Because if three different people asked you that, you'd answer it the same way. It's, what do you think about jealousy? If I ask you, Shanenn, how do you think jealousy affects us differently?

[00:04:56] If people asked you that, you'd answer it differently because the question acknowledges the relationship.

[00:05:01] Topaz Adizes: The people who are speaking, who are in conversation. It really helps.

[00:05:03] Shanenn Bryant: Interesting.

[00:05:05] Topaz Adizes: And then there's a few others. One of them is don't ask, if it's really hard to ask, if you're asking questions with an agenda behind it, it's really hard to get an honest response. I think that's another big one, is really coming at a question with real curiosity.

[00:05:21] Because that's a way to, for you to counter, if you do have an agenda, If you're hurt or you're suspicious or something, and you have an agenda, take a moment, pause and search for the curiosity in you and ask the question from that place, because that's more of an open invitation versus a pointed finger.

[00:05:40] And it's a lot easier to shake a hand that's open-handed invitation than the hand that's got a finger pointing at you.

[00:05:49] Shanenn Bryant: Yes, and that's something that I used to do all the time You know, I'd ask my partner, how their day was. “What'd you do today?" “How was your day?” And I had an agenda, and my agenda was let's see if stuff matches up. Or let's see if there's something that I should be worried about and it's sad to say I wasn't necessarily in those moments really curious about their day.

[00:06:11] And so certainly not only did that not, bring us closer, it certainly separated us.

[00:06:16] Topaz Adizes: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's important too, and that's part of the space, is what's the intention you hold in having this conversation. If the intention is curiosity and exploration and you want to have a deeper conversation and connect, you can't bring an agenda to it.

[00:06:33] Shanenn Bryant: Right, and I know you were giving us a few of them, but in this where someone has to have these conversations about jealousy, it is not an easy conversation to have. We have to whether you're telling your partner, hey, this is why I'm acting this way because I'm jealous, like letting them know for the first time, or they know, and you've kind of created a unhealthy situation or started another argument and now you have to have the conversation again about your actions.

[00:07:03] So I just want to talk through maybe some questions, that we could talk to our partner about when it comes to jealousy and then how are we constructing those.

[00:07:13] Topaz Adizes: One thing we should just think about in terms of the power of the question is that the question shapes the answer. We have to really realize this. The question shapes the answer. Just like a race is shaped by the course that it's run on. The answer is shaped by the question that's asked, you already shaped the answer by the question you ask.

[00:07:36] And what I'm saying is, let me ask you this. Why do we fight so much? Okay, so you are shaping the answer to be a long list of reasons why we fight so much. If instead you said, what's our, this is just, what's our biggest conflict and what is it teaching us? Oh, okay. So now you're shaping a different answer.

[00:07:58] It's not a long list of reasons why we fight. It's actually, our biggest conflict is this, but it's teaching us this. It's already positioning the answer in a more empowering manner. So just, we don't spend enough time focusing on the question. Thank you. In our society, we focus so much on the answer.

[00:08:18] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:19] Topaz Adizes: For example, maybe someone says, are you cheating on me? Which by the way, is a yes or no answer. 

[00:08:26] Maybe sometimes you need it, right? Maybe you need that. Maybe sometimes you want a very clear answer, but, or why are you cheating on me? You're assuming, but if you could shape the answers, like, why do you think I have this sense that we're not connected or that your emotional energy is going somewhere else?

[00:08:46] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. 

[00:08:47] Topaz Adizes: So how we state the question is really important. And one little trick that I want to add here is that whenever you ask a question, if you go, if I ask you, Shanenn, what's our biggest conflict, it already puts that question, puts you in a position of the arbiter of truth.

[00:09:06] It says, what is, and whatever you're going to say is, this is it. And therefore you're saying, this is our biggest conflict. If I just tweak the question a little bit and said, what do you feel or what do you think is our biggest conflict? It places you not as the arbiter of truth, but puts us in an equal position.

[00:09:24] This is your opinion I can't fight with your opinion. That's your experience. It's your feelings, right? We could fight about what our biggest conflict is as an act of truth No, it's this or is that but if we go, what do you think it is? I can't really argue with it. That's your experience.

[00:09:41] Shanenn Bryant: I may think, not spending enough time is our biggest conflict and you might think it's something else. Okay, now we have two things that are important to both of us versus I'm saying this is what it is.

[00:09:51] Topaz Adizes: But the power is already handed over or not. Equanimity is already created or not in the shape of the question. Just by saying what do you think is our biggest conflict versus what is our biggest conflict.

[00:10:03] Shanenn Bryant: So it's really important that we put emphasis on, or energy and conscientiousness into the construction of our questions.

[00:10:11] And it almost, you posing it to me, it almost even put me a little, on the defense or in a way, I needed to almost solve it. I felt a lot of the weight of that. 

[00:10:25] Topaz Adizes: Which is also something about the space of the question, the space that we create, right? If you're going to have a challenging conversation, create the space for it. Don't have it when someone's washing the dishes, or fixing the car, or, making the bed. let's create the space. And that could be, that's why we have like our card games for instance, right?

[00:10:46] I have here the healing deck like just by saying, Hey Shanenn, let's play a game that creates a space. We're playing a game. There's random questions. I took out a question. Oh, I'm asking you a question. It's a game that creates a space. It gives permission for you to answer and for me to receive.

[00:11:02] To listen. But we don't often consciously create the space in our relationships to have certain kinds of conversations. We muddle it with the day to day. And right? And or oftentimes we save it until things are so bad that you hear those famous lines. The line, we’ve got to talk, right? 

[00:11:22] Shanenn Bryant: That's what I was just gonna ask you because I do feel like we do that where it's Oh, I know that I have to have what we think like this conversation, this heavy conversation or this one that we're a little bit worried about how it may go. So then there's this tension almost that's built up and it's Oh, that's the event.

[00:11:45] And so what is the best way for us to get into a really healthy space to have some of these conversations?

[00:11:55] Topaz Adizes: Big picture. First thing is maintenance. Don't wait until it's so bad that you have to have such a big conversation. Have maintenance. That's why it's good to have date night. It's good to have, once a week we have a check in. It's good to have a practice, a ritual, a exercise of connecting. So that you are day to day, week to week, month to month, working in the garden.

[00:12:23] Making sure that's in the garden of your relationship. Or, if you don't, then it's going to build up to, and just inevitable. This is in my opinion how life works, that the more you restrict and push it down, the bigger or the bigger need is required to bust it open. And therefore, it's going to be even more painful.

[00:12:45] So first I say is maintenance. Like check in on the relationship often. But then, Let's say you're in the relation, you're in the conversation, and it's a big one, it's uncomfortable. Two things. One is breathe. Breathe. When we're in pain, we try to go through it faster. If you're gonna diffuse a bomb, are you gonna go fast or slow?

[00:13:12] If you're gonna diffuse a bomb that it could explode in your face, you're gonna take your time. That’s why if we're having a very challenging conversation, even though it's painful, we got to go slow. Cause we don't want this thing to explode so easy to misunderstand each other.

[00:13:29] Topaz Adizes: There's so many ways to have a conflict. You say one word, it means this definition to you, but to me, it means something else.

Or you're talking, there's a big distinction between what is what it should be and what you want it to be. So, wait, are we, are you talking in what it should be and I'm talking what it is?

[00:13:50] Topaz Adizes: Am I talking in what I want and you're talking about what should be? There's that type of misunderstanding and so we have to slow down and play it back to each other and make sure that we are understanding each other, and you can't do that if you go fast.

[00:14:07] Topaz Adizes: And the flip side is that just also have the faith in, and I would say this is in safe relationships.  If you’re in an unsafe relationship is a different thing.

[00:14:15] But in safe relationships where you have a mutual trust and respect, there's a mutual love. You're both on the same journey to the same place and you say similar values. What I would say is know that conflict and that discomfort on the flip side of that is growth. The commeasure to the pain is the equal amount of growth.

[00:14:39] Shanenn Bryant: I love this idea because I think in our relationships, we have the same conversations or the same questions that we ask over and over again, and it's because we're not getting the answer, right? We're not getting the understanding, and so then we just need to keep going. asking it again. And like you said, even those ones where do you still love me?

[00:15:02] Do you still find me attractive? Those are ones that, we like to ask over and over again when really that's probably not what you're trying to get at, 

[00:15:10] Topaz Adizes: Exactly. Are you asking the same question because you're not getting the answer you want? Or, you're not getting the answer to the question you really have?

[00:15:22] And so therefore, we need to ask ourselves, what's the question, what's the need, what's the curiosity I really have? Shape the question from there and offer the person the space to respond.

[00:15:35] Topaz Adizes: And they can't respond if they're against the wall.  

[00:15:34] Shanenn Bryant: I want to talk about that a little bit too because I would assume that our reaction to them providing us answers or them answering the questions also can cause conflict or could potentially cause conflict or someone to shut down.

[00:15:56] Topaz Adizes: Tell me more. Give me an example, tell me more.

[00:15:58] Shanenn Bryant: So, I'm just thinking, in the case of someone who is listening to the show and saying, okay, I'm asking my partner these same questions where I'm asking, but one great one is, oh, do you find the new girl at your office attractive? That's something that we ask. And whether it's a question we should be asking or not, we're asking it. And they've probably already answered it more than once. 

[00:16:26] But what if they said yes? And our reaction to that, I assume, oh, that didn't go well. I'm not going to answer honestly again.

[00:16:36] Topaz Adizes: Wait, I know, that's interesting, because to me, when I hear that question, so you're starting the question with a do so the answer is yes or no. So, there's no graze. There's no nuance. There's no actual deeper understanding. It's just, yes, no. And then secondly, it sets up the other person to my opinion, no matter what they say, they're going to lose.

[00:16:55] If they say yes. Oh, you find someone else more attractive. That's problematic. If they say no, then you're like, you're not telling me the truth. We don't have an honest relationship. So, both are, it's a lose, lose. Why are we asking a lose lose question of our relationship? It's just sending us down a road of more challenge.

[00:17:11] It's not empowering to the relationship. Another version could be, what do you find most attractive about me that you see in the person you work with? That's going to be interesting. That's different, Okay. So, you're already acknowledging that you're attractive. You're acknowledging the other person is attractive. You're asking for the similarity.

[00:17:31] And it's about you. Why are we putting all the emphasis on someone else who's not even in the relationship who it might be affecting their life. Like we have to shape the question to be supportive to the relationship we want to have. Does that make sense?

[00:17:46] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, that's so good. 

[00:17:48] Topaz Adizes: So, cause your mind and all our minds are built to protect while our hearts are built to connect. What is serving what? If you ask a question that is built to protect you, why do we fight so much or why are you looking at that woman or man or whatever? Your mind will serve. It's there to protect. It will find an answer. If we go to the heart and ask a question, that's going to bring us closer together.

[00:18:19] The mind will serve the heart and we'll find an answer that brings us closer together. Does that make sense?

[00:18:24] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, yes, it does. Such a good way to change that and making you think ahead of time, again, about what is the question that I want to ask?

[00:18:36] Topaz Adizes: Yeah. maybe underneath is, maybe you feel unsecure because you feel like their emotional attention, or their attention physical is directed somewhere else. And you could ask, how do you feel that the diminishment of our emotional connection? I'm creating this right now. Maybe there's a question like, I feel your emotional focus is gone. How do you think that feeling affects our connection? And what can we do about it?

[00:19:07] It throws the problem into where you're saying this is my feeling. We're losing the emotional connection, our focus. Why do you think I feel that way so that you can reflect?

[00:19:16] And what can we do about it? And by the way, if your partner is not taking responsibility for some part of the relationship, are you taking responsibility in your relationship? Are they taking responsibility for themselves in the relationship? Then you know, in my opinion, and I'm not a therapist, so I'm just speaking about my 10 years of experience of watching conversations and obviously my own life, but it's really from watching 1,200 conversations is that I would question if you're in a healthy relationship but not if no one's taking responsibility for their actions or for their how they impact one another. 

[00:19:50] But obviously we're responsible for our own feelings and what we do with them, right? 

[00:19:54] Shanenn Bryant: I think you touched on this a little bit, but how do we stay connected when we're already in conflict? So, we're in conflict, maybe the conversation isn't going, quite, we didn't pose the questions, as we should have or whatever the situation is, but we're in conflict.

[00:20:10] How do we stay connected? Cause I feel like that's the first thing that people want to do is ugh, push each other away.

[00:20:19] Topaz Adizes: I saw Esther Perel on a podcast. I think she did a great pivot on the question. When she did a pivot of the question is what are we fighting about? To what are we fighting for?

[00:20:30] You're in that moment of and it's okay. You want to push the other person. You need some space. You want to push the other person away. You need to get breath. Slow down, that's very helpful. Slow down, be in it. Do you have the faith and the internal intuitive gut trust that you are both on the same road?

[00:20:50] On the same path? That they want what's good for you, and you want what's good for them?

[00:20:56] Topaz Adizes: You're in that space, then the conflict in that consternation you feel, you got to slowly breathe and let that seed of conflict and pain sprout at some time, and it might not sprout right now, but it can sprout, and it will sprout.

[00:21:15] It has its own time. But fundamental to that is, am I in a safe, loving relationship? Do they want what's best for me? Do I want what's best for them? And if the answer is yes, then I think it's, I believe in my experience in life, and if it's, then not only answers come when you want them. Like answers and things happen.

[00:21:38] I remember building, a project, The And actually, we made an interactive site when we launched, and it took a long time. And what I learned from that experience was just because it's not happening when I want it to happen, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

[00:21:55] It's going to happen on its own timeframe.

[00:21:58] The solution may happen on its own timeframe. Have the faith and give that seed, the nutrients and the sunlight it needs and the time it needs to blossom, i.e. for the answer, for the resolution to happen. You don't have to force it. But underlying all that is, are you in a safe, loving relationship? 

[00:22:17] Shanenn Bryant: I think that does also bring out, are you in a healthy, safe relationship where both of you are wanting the same thing, because we forget that a lot. They're like, we might be, we might have a disagreement, but we both still want this to work, and we both don't want to argue.

[00:22:37] We don't want to be in this conflict. So, what is it that's tugging at each one of us that's creating this and what's the result that we want?

[00:22:48] Topaz Adizes: Absolutely. And what's beautiful about relationships is that it is an opportunity for you personally to grow. And you grow by how am I playing this game in the relationship? How am I dancing in this relationship? How am I being in this relationship? I'm dancing as an allegory, as a metaphor, right?

[00:23:06] How am I being in this relationship? How am I playing this game of love? And whether you break up or not, you go to another relationship. It's the same question. How am I showing up? Am I showing up and am I being courageous and vulnerable and honest? And am I also learning about myself and evolving?

[00:23:22] Because I don't think we've come to this. In my personal opinion, I know that we are born alone, and we die alone. But everything in the middle is us about connection and relationships. And it's an opportunity in that time to grow. And we grow through relationships. We also grow alone, if you will. But we really grow in my opinion through the challenge of connecting with another soul.

[00:23:50] Shanenn Bryant: You've really given us a lot to think about in terms of, how we are posing these questions. These, what we would think are very difficult questions that we need to have with our partner, and a lot of different ways to do it. So, thank you so much for that. I have one final question for you.

[00:24:05] Gosh You've directed films. You, have a book out. You've got your games, which I think are amazing, the card games. I think everybody should get them. I'm so glad that you did it. I joked not that long ago about my husband and I; we got a card game similar to that for a Christmas gift one time, which was a little bit odd in itself, but we started to play it.

[00:24:29] Like one of the first ones that he drew was, what is your partner useless at? And we were like, I don't think this is, I don't think that I don't think we should play this.

[00:24:41] Topaz Adizes: That's funny.

[00:24:42] Shanenn Bryant: I don't think those are the questions on your cards.

[00:24:46] Topaz Adizes: We have some that make you feel uncomfortable, but I don't think we should shy away from discomfort again. Like I said, I think there's a lot to be learned there, but yeah. That question particularly is not one of ours. But we might have others that you might not want to answer, which is actually one of our rules, is that you don't have to answer any question you don't want.

[00:25:04] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, you don’t?

[00:25:05] Topaz Adizes: No, you just have to ask the question. You have to grant the partner that they don't need to answer anything they don't want. You have to, that's another way of not pushing them against the wall. It's another way of not pointing the finger, but rather offering them an invitation. So that they know they don't have to answer.

[00:25:20] They can step in, but if they want, but they don't have to. And that's the only way to get a really honest, beautiful response of what is, or what could be.

[00:25:30] Shanenn Bryant: What have you seen, what's a favorite question of yours that you have seen really, connect to people?

[00:25:37] Topaz Adizes: That's what's in the book, right? It's number seven in the book, which is a climax, is “What's the pain in me you wish you could heal, and why?”

[00:25:45] Shanenn Bryant: Oh. Cool. Cool.

[00:25:46] Topaz Adizes: Question number four is, “What are you hesitant to ask me?” Which is always nice to ask in the context of, the beginning of a conversation with the 12 questions are structured in such a way to take you on a journey.

[00:26:00] Seven is the most vulnerable one. The last one is “Why do you love me?” And that's a beautiful question.

[00:26:07] Right? We don't often ask that question. We don't often get the permission to receive the answer to that question. And what is life about if, yeah, what's life about if not at least to share and reflect the, the emotions that we have about other people in our life.

[00:26:30] Shanenn Bryant: I think, I was just thinking when you just said that final question, why do you love me? I think is a really good one for us to ask instead of the question, do you still love me? Like you said, that serves the relationship. That's so good.

[00:26:46] Topaz Adizes: Do you still love me already suggests it's like that you don't.

[00:26:51] Shanenn Bryant: Right. 

[00:26:51] Topaz Adizes: One version of the question could be to change it and it do starts to do so it ends with yes, no. How has your love for me changed?

[00:27:00] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah.

[00:27:01] Topaz Adizes:: Do you feel my love for you has changed? What does my love feel like?

[00:27:09] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, because we're really, I mean, the reason we're asking is we want that assurance, from our partner. And so, I think it's beautiful of saying, posing it in a different way and especially the number 12, like you said, of like, why do you love me? That's what we want to hear, right? 

[00:27:26] Shanenn Bryant: And it's a more positive way than this, do you love, do you still love me type question. 

[00:27:31] Topaz Adizes: Yeah. 

[00:27:32] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So good. Going back to my final question for you. So, of all these things that you've done, you've been so successful, helped a lot of people, not just, romantic couples, but a lot of relationships. Has there, can you share a time where you've ever, where you have ever felt insecure or 

[00:27:51] Topaz Adizes: Oh my god.  Jealous, yes. Insecure, a lot. So much. I don't think I was honestly; I think about four months before I met my wife. That's when I really had the complete shift of insecurity in me. Because I had a very profound experience when I realized that profoundly I didn't love myself.

[00:28:16] Topaz Adizes: And, I was, what, 41, 42? Took a, long time of not loving yourself.

[00:28:23] Topaz Adizes:: Yeah, and more importantly, pretending that I was, that I didn't have that problem. And when I fully saw that in front of me, I said, wow. And that, then, the shift as, for me was, instead of going to search for love, it was about finding myself, grounded in the earth, and allowing the feminine energy, because I feel very close connected to the masculine energy.

[00:28:47] I like to be in that space. Allowing the feminine energy to find, like to, for me to find my groundedness and rudeness in the earth and strength there and having the faith and knowledge that, the feminine energy will find its way to me. And it did the life, life brought it to me.

[00:29:03] So, but I remember I had, and I've talked about this in the book, but I have one very specific memory for sure, where I made a shift and it was years earlier, still was playing with my insecurity, but it was a, it was a short affair that didn't end, that ended early, if you should say, but I was obviously infatuated with her.

[00:29:25] And I remember being super depressed and I was living in New York, and I got on the subway and I realized how depressed I was and insecure. Cause you know, she didn't call back and we basically, I got ghosted or she broke up or something and not interested. And I remember I have to change the question right now.

[00:29:43] Otherwise I'm going to be depressed for the next week, two weeks, three weeks. And I have a beautiful Sunday right now. And there's and I'm free to go to central park and listen to music and see some friends. I'm going to be depressed. I'm asking myself the questions. Why doesn't she love me? What's wrong with me? Why did she reject me? And obviously you ask those questions, your mind will give you the multiple answers. And I said, I need to shift this. And I said, okay, how is this sense of insecurity and loss going to give me, going to put me on the path to finding what I love? Okay. it's going to give me this.

[00:30:20] I'm going to learn from that. I'm going to do this. Okay. And that already primed me to have a better day, a better week, and to use that painful experience to grow.

[00:30:29] Shanenn Bryant: Going back to what is this teaching me, right? What am I learning from this? Yeah. Oh, beautiful. Thank you so much for being on Top Self Podcast and for helping us with these questions. Your work is amazing. where can people go to find your work and where do you want to, what do you want them to go watch and look for?

[00:30:54] Topaz Adizes: So, to buy any of our decks or our books, we have 12 editions, all kinds of relationships. We also have healing and amusing, theskindeep.com, theskindeep.com. And then on social media channels, YouTube all that, Facebook, theskindeep. Look it up and we're there. And that's where you can get all our stuff.

[00:31:13] Shanenn Bryant: And go watch the videos. They are amazing. Thank you so much.

[00:31:17] Topaz Adizes: Oh, thank you, Shanenn.