Building True Confidence w/ Dr. Tony Dufresne EP 43

[00:00:00] Podcast Intro: Welcome to Top Self, the podcast dedicated to relax your mind, achieve change, and become a healthier, more present you. Are you ready to move past the daily anxiety? Comparing and doubting yourself and feeling like you're not enough? I'm your host, Shanenn Bryant, and I've ruined many good relationships because of my jealousy and stayed way too long in some bad ones because of my insecurity.

[00:00:32] Podcast Intro: But I stopped letting fear drive my actions, and now, I can't wait to share with you as I dive into these emotions, shed light on how they might be impacting your life, and uncover strategies to break free from their grip. It's time to start living a life of confidence. So get ready to ignite your self worth and transform your life, because my friend, you are worthy.

[00:01:00] Shanenn Bryant: Back to another episode of Top Self. I have my new buddy with me, Tony Dufresne, PhD, by the way. Uh, Tony helps women build their comp, by the way, right? Well, look, Tony, I would be using that all the time in my title if I spent that much time going to school, studying and working hard.

[00:01:18] Tony Dufresne: I told my family six months, six months, they have to call me doctor. That's it. And then after that, forget it. And that was, you know, years and years and years ago, but I got six months of doctor. After that, I'm fine. But I appreciate the acknowledgement.

[00:01:30] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Well, Tony helps women build their confidence, overcome self-doubt and achieve their goals through an online program. So you have an online program, which we'll talk about called Building True Confidence. And then you have an amazing podcast called She Talks Confidence. Welcome Tony.

[00:01:47] Tony Dufresne: Welcome. Thanks to you. I'm here and that's great. And you're going to be on my show too, right? You know, we're going to be doing that right after this. So, uh, and thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It's kind of cool to be on this side of the guest part. So I'm just going to sit back and chill out. Just be a guest. It's kind of nice.

[00:02:05] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Which do you prefer being a guest or interviewing?

[00:02:09] Tony Dufresne: I like people asking me questions because I like talking about myself.

[00:02:12] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, well, perfect. 

[00:02:14] Tony Dufresne: No, I really enjoy being the host because I have strong, powerful women on my show. That's basically my show is about true confidence, women's confidence, and it's so enlightening and it's like the teacher always tending to learn more than the student type of a scenario. And that's why I love it. Because I learn so much and it's so enlightening and the stories are so great. It's insanely entertaining to me to be a host and just to kind of guide the conversation. The hardest part. I don't know if it's the same with you.

[00:02:44] Tony Dufresne: Is shutting up and letting them tell their story because my mind goes a million miles an hour. And so I digress off of things because I want to know certain parts of the story. And the one thing over the, this is my ninth year in doing my show. And, um, the, the one thing I've been working on the most is just letting, you know, letting the story come out and not stopping it on every little thing because I'm so inquisitive and so fascinated by the stories that these women have brought to me.

[00:03:13] Tony Dufresne: And that's why I like that.

[00:03:15] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Well, speaking of stories, I think there's a really good story to be told on your end because it's not every day that there's a man talking about women's confidence.

[00:03:28] Tony Dufresne: I think there, yeah, I think there are two guys, me and another guy the last I saw that are in the women's empowerment coaching genre. And, uh, and the reason I'm here is because of my daughter. She's 31 now, but, uh, when she was one, uh, I got divorced from her mom and after numerous things that went on, but ultimately everybody realized I was the parent that needed to be the parent to deal with things and to do things.

[00:03:59] Tony Dufresne: So she was with me the vast majority of time for the first 12 years or so, and it was during that time, initially, that, because I was, I had two sisters and I had a strong mom figure while I was growing up, but you don't realize the different realities that go on, especially as a guy, we are very, very, what's the word?

[00:04:25] Tony Dufresne: Uh, we live in a small bubble, or I mean, it just really what it is. You guys have... your breadth of experience and emotional ability to connect you know, spiritual ability to reach out is just so much more. And I didn't realize that until I had my daughter. And then I started seeing through her and through her experiences.

[00:04:49] Tony Dufresne: I started seeing a different world around me because we were both going through the same things except taking the age thing out of it. She was looking at it from more of a girl, women, female perspective and especially when she started having interactions with male or boys.

[00:05:09] Shanenn Bryant: Right.

[00:05:10] Tony Dufresne: It was such an eye opener because you don't realize the systemic things that are happening or going on or expectations and the differences between the genders.

[00:05:22] Tony Dufresne: And that was a huge learning experience for me. And having that ability to be her dad and as the sole parent and the one who was raising her, of course, I was the soccer coach for years and years. And, and you talk about, uh, you talk about a life experience and a learning experience, you know, with fifteen, 11-year-old girls. And, uh, yeah. And anybody can tell you that's in and of itself, quite a learning experience. So that's how I started. I went, once we got divorced, uh, I started in finance and when we got divorced, I realized that I think my calling was more from a psychological perspective. And so I went back to school uh, night school because I was watching her and got my grad degree in psychology.

[00:06:08] Tony Dufresne: And then I started working in therapy, uh, family systems and, and, um, uh, couples. Ooh, that's a whole other show. And, and then after that, I realized that I w I was very much into Eastern, uh, spirituality. And, you know, Buddhism and Taoism and in just Lao Tzu and all the, that aspect of spirituality and of, uh, you know, more philosophical based versus the psychological based.

[00:06:39] Tony Dufresne: And so when I got out I decided to transition into a PhD program that actually integrated both of them and it was the best experience I ever had and then after I got out I decided to start my personal coaching. And initially it was for everybody but interestingly enough, I think it was because of the vibe Uh, I just, I kept, my clients kept being women of, of anywhere, you know, 25 to 45 ish. I didn't mean for that to happen, but I think it's just because of my experience and my experience with my daughter and the fact that I I can be a male voice in the female world with the distinct understanding that I'm not a woman.

[00:07:23] Tony Dufresne: And that's that, and that's something that you have to keep in your mind. And so I come at it from an, from an advocacy point of view, from somebody who wants to help. And maybe has a different voice or a different take than a woman would have in the same space.

[00:07:39] Shanenn Bryant: Well, I'm sure it's pretty refreshing and that's probably why you kept attracting all these female clients because a lot of our, our biggest thing is wanting to feel heard and especially wanting to feel heard by a male a lot of times. 

[00:07:52] Tony Dufresne: That's what it was and it's not like they weren't talking to other women like friends or they haven't been to women coaches before or women therapists before But I think it's just from getting that perspective that they hadn't gotten before or maybe it's because it is different. 

[00:08:05] Tony Dufresne: I mean, I gotta be honest with you. I do see things differently. I see things I think I default down to the dad thing. I think like the girl dad and that's, and that's how I initially see, especially with my younger clients, 20 to 30 ish. Uh, and then I just harken back onto my own personal experiences through that hellish decade of good and bad, right?

[00:08:29] Tony Dufresne: But twenties and thirties, I mean, if you're listening, you're 23-year-old, just, just, you know, don't worry about it. Just do your thing and experience your thing. And then eventually in your mid-thirties to forties, you'll figure it out. But in the meantime, don't put too much pressure on yourself because you just, it should be just an incubator and a learning process at that point.

[00:08:47] Tony Dufresne: Cause there's a lot more life ahead of you. 

[00:08:50] Shanenn Bryant: I'm so glad that you said that because a lot of times, I know I did for the longest time as I started to get into my late thirties, early forties, thinking back on how I operated and the way that I was in my twenties, especially was like, oh man, if I would, you know, that whole saying, if I would have known, you know, if I would have known, Then what I know now,

[00:09:13] Tony Dufresne: Of course.

[00:09:14] Shanenn Bryant: Yes, but I think we, we start feeling guilty or feeling bad about ourselves because of the way maybe we handled some things then, and that is a big piece of, yes, it's, you know, getting older and then learning and having those learning experiences, but I think it's really important that you said, don't worry about it, you know, don't beat yourself up over those things.

[00:09:36] Tony Dufresne: Exactly. And you bring up a good point because a lot of times as we get older and, and, you know, in your, in your thirties or your mid-thirties and you start thinking, um, well, I should have done it better. You know, maybe your regrets, uh, start piling in or you're having a second, uh, doubts or you're feeling bad about yourself in terms of where you're at.

[00:09:52] Tony Dufresne: Because, you know, obviously we make choices in life and we end up where we're supposed to end up based upon the choices. I mean, that it just is what it is. I mean, and some people have a much harder road to hoe then other people. And that's, yeah. That's just a given. We can never equalize the playing field in terms of your socioeconomic status or how your family is or where you're from or your educational opportunities.

[00:10:16] Tony Dufresne: I mean, that's just sadly, uh, some places are just deficient in that. But that being the case, it's again, it's not an excuse. And the thing that I find the most disheartening is the 45-year-old women that come to me and they have this amazing amount of guilt and shame. Because of all the, because of the decisions that they made in a context to where they were younger or they were overly dependent on somebody, or they're enmeshed in some terrible toxic relationship, and they're still holding the burden of that.

[00:10:55] Tony Dufresne: Because you, because, and I'll say you guys, and I'm, I am overgeneralizing, and when I I talk to my women clients, I say you guys, which means, you know, women in general, you're, you're, you're so more emotionally mature and in touch. That's your intuition. Your women's intuition, we do not have, and we'll never have, and it's the most incredible gift you guys have.

[00:11:19] Tony Dufresne: It's just unbelievable. That gives you the ability to really, really see things and feel things more than anything. Now, the problem is it's shedding that off. As you get older, because more and more I'm finding that my women clients hold on to this guilt and the shame because of either perfectionism or from unrealistic expectations that not they have, but the people around them have, of them.

[00:11:48] Tony Dufresne: And that's, and that's the hardest thing to shed, because you guys, women, are very, you're very community based, if that makes sense, and you know, from a metaphorical standpoint, you guys are really the gatherers, you're the glue that keeps everything together, and I think you take on it more of the responsibility of certain situations in that case and probably feel bad that you're not able to fix it.

[00:12:17] Tony Dufresne: And, uh, and that's, and I try to get my clients more than anything to realize that that is a huge impact on them. And it's creating choices. It's leading to choices that they're making that are not good for them and not good for their true self and their inner self and their true confidence. And that's one of the biggest things that I found.

[00:12:41] Shanenn Bryant: Well, and you talk about the intuition thing. I'm glad that you brought this up because, yes, we have it, yes, I do feel like it's a gift. At the same time, though... We can really start to question ourselves, the emotional piece of it that we bring, that emotional piece that helps us to be the people that kind of hold everything together, the community, people, the gatherers, that type of thing, we start to question that a lot of times as we're in relationships, as we're in situations, because I think often we assume that the man is right in most situations because they're coming from a less emotional place.

[00:13:26] Shanenn Bryant: So because of that, then, we really question all the time. I know for sure with my clients, that is one of the big things. They question like, Well, this is how I feel and this is what my brain is telling me, but I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's right. And I assume that they're correct.

[00:13:48] Tony Dufresne: Right? The power of unearned confidence, right?

[00:13:52] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah.

[00:13:52] Tony Dufresne: That's what it is. That's all it is. The only difference between men and women in those circumstances is the level of unearned confidence. And it doesn't even have to go to the level of being cockiness or, or, you know, over, over flexing your ego. It just, that is a actual fact. 

[00:14:09] Tony Dufresne: An amazing book for anybody to read, and one of the foundational books that I have in my library is the Claire Shipman book, The Confidence Code. I know, and I'm sorry she wrote it with somebody else. It's incredible. And the fact is that they do an amazing job at a summation in regards to the past and the trends and the systemic aspects of it.

[00:14:35] Tony Dufresne: Uh, and where women are and then the differences in terms of men and women in regards to just the physiology, uh, research based differences and all. And, and it's like being in class and it's the guys who are raising their hands and just saying stuff. And it's because for some reason on a general level, we're wired to really just kind of throw it out there basically and not really care, whereas women have been systemically programmed to think well, I have to be you know, I’ve got to be in class I've got to be perfect and if I don't know the answer Huge huge thing with women even up in the executive level office stuff if I don't know the answer I’m not gonna I'm not gonna answer if I don't know what if I don't know what 100 I’m not gonna answer whereas guys Yeah, if I kind of know it, I'll give it a shot.

[00:15:25] Tony Dufresne: Why not? And that's, and that's a huge, right? And that's a huge difference. And that's really the only difference. And so I, I tell my women clients, when we talk about certain circumstances like that, I just say. You know, the only thing that you can do is you can take a step out and just be okay being wrong.

[00:15:45] Shanenn Bryant: Imperfect, right? Yeah.

[00:15:47] Tony Dufresne: It's the being perfectly imperfect and that's, again, that's such a huge, huge thing that I find with my women clients and actually has been documented and especially in the Confidence Code is that the perfectionism bubble that most women operate in is stifling and it's keeping the growth and keeping the essence of getting in touch with true confidence and really living the life that you want without all of this extra anxiety and extra feelings of not good enough or imposter syndrome or whatever you want to call it, to sit there and keep you down and keep you from really experiencing and having the right attitude towards the things that you do and the choices that you make.

[00:16:36] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Since you've worked with a lot of women, what have you found are some common factors that contribute to women experiencing that self-doubt in their personal lives, in their professional lives? Like, what are, what are some of those common things?

[00:16:52] Tony Dufresne: Oh, let's see Uh, 

[00:16:55] Shanenn Bryant: The list is long, right?

[00:16:57] Tony Dufresne: Yeah, but it really comes down to some very basic ones first. First is the family system and you know, most of our neuroprogramming happens before we're two years old and that's just a fact and uh, as you go on and as you grow up you're growing up in a particular system And, there are some systemic aspects of that that may have got you to question things.

[00:17:21] Tony Dufresne: Because women are more sensitive and more emotional, you tend to read into things more. I think the perfectionist aspect of it, if it does come in and it's introduced in there in terms of, Oh, how'd you do in school? Oh, a B minus? Oh, maybe, you know, that type of thing. Well, you could do better. I think women latch onto that more.

[00:17:48] Tony Dufresne: So, it's, it's family systems and how that's impacting in terms of your self-esteem and, uh, how much level of, you know, self-possession that you have. And then it gets into the social aspects because there are some certain, again, systemic things, which means basically the way society is and the way women and men and the differences, as much as you think that that's still not the case, it still exists.

[00:18:14] Tony Dufresne: And if you look at it, I mean, the suffragettes back in the day, or even getting voting rights, for God's sakes, I mean, that's all like recent history. So there, right. So, there's still certain mental blocks or just like unseen systemic things in society that that's the case. And then what happens is because if you get into a situation to where you're having to be the fixer or the people pleaser, which you do a lot.

[00:18:41] Tony Dufresne: Or the perfectionist you find the person that you can take care of, or you can fix, or the person that is not exactly, maybe the best fit in terms of being a teammate. But a person that's enabling your psychopathy, right? And you're enabling theirs too, and you're sitting there trying to fix them and it ends up being a very toxic situation.

[00:19:05] Tony Dufresne: And it, and all of a sudden, all the things that you thought of bad about, you know, I'm not good enough or this and that, all of a sudden that comes back and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because of the person that you're with and the toxic relationship that you're in.

[00:19:19] Shanenn Bryant: Mm

[00:19:19] Tony Dufresne: And so that's ultimately, you know, ultimately anything in terms of our ego, our self-concept, our self-esteem, uh, comes down to, nature and nurture, but a lot of it, most of it comes from the people that are around you, your tribe, 

[00:19:36] Tony Dufresne: uh, your family, and then your friends and school people, and then ultimately your relationship.

[00:19:43] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Well, I know for me, definitely until probably the last, I don't know, eight years, maybe five to eight years, I was operating a lot from, and I know a lot of women do this of if I'm not doing like the things that I'm doing are what makes me valuable. Like that's what, that's my contribution. Not just being able to be myself.

[00:20:07] Shanenn Bryant: And you know, all the wonderful, amazing things that come with it. But no, it's, well, what are all the things that I'm accomplishing? What are all the things that I'm getting done? What are all the things that I'm taking care of? What are all the things that I'm fixing? All of that, that then makes you, that's how you feel like that's what your worth is.

[00:20:28] Shanenn Bryant: Mm

[00:20:28] Tony Dufresne: A hundred percent. That's exactly what happens. And then how terrible is that? Because then you're always moving the carrot on yourself. Because it doesn't matter how much you've accomplished, it matters in terms of what you're accomplishing or not accomplishing right now. And there, there's your self image right there.

[00:20:44] Tony Dufresne: Your self image is contextual; it's based upon the fact that you are doing something or are not doing something. It has nothing to do with having levels of introspection and accepting yourself whole and complete. And imperfect and flawed. I mean, warts and all, like we all have. There's nobody on the face of the earth that doesn't have, it's just a dumpster fire sometimes.

[00:21:07] Tony Dufresne: Just is, it is just is what it is. But I see that so much and I totally agree with you. And it's, and that's, and that's the one thing that we need to refresh as coaches. We, we try to reframe the thought process and the pattern interrupt. You know, your brain automatically goes into this cycle because it runs the same old movie and the movie's based upon all that other bad stuff that happened in the past.

[00:21:28] Tony Dufresne: Our job is to say, is to give you the tools to say, whoa, wait a minute, stop that movie. And then to kind of pivot a little bit to the side and then start a new movie based upon you now to where you make some solid good decisions that are the best for you.

[00:21:44] Shanenn Bryant: Well, speaking of tools and techniques what are some that you have found to be effective for self-confidence? Like, are there self-confidence exercises or things that we as women can do to help in that area?

[00:21:58] Tony Dufresne: 100 percent. Yeah, There's there's three that I like the most and this is not a a headline read all about it, you know epiphany here, meditation is one and now yeah, and i'll give you these three but it's not like you have to do all three. I mean, some, some of it works for some people and some not, right?

[00:22:16] Tony Dufresne: So, meditation, some people like it, some people don't. And the interesting part about that is the fact that a lot of, you know, ADD people, if they call themselves ADD, they're really not, but you know, they, my women, oh, I, oh, my mind's going too fast. Meditation is not about that. It's not about sitting there in a Zen like thing and starting to levitate in the corner with a, you know, Skirt around you, right?

[00:22:36] Tony Dufresne: I mean just it just That's not what it's about. It's just about giving yourself some space That's all just so you can sit there and kind of go through your

[00:22:44] Shanenn Bryant: Time to think. Right?

[00:22:45] Shanenn Bryant: Or time to just be calm. 

[00:22:47] Tony Dufresne: So, it's meditation It's journaling huge huge 

[00:22:52] Tony Dufresne: and basically it's, you know, 10 minutes each morning, just start writing down. And the journaling part, it's not about writing something that anybody's going to read, even yourself.

[00:23:01] Tony Dufresne: The journaling part is giving yourself space to just write whatever comes down to the pen. And I tell sometimes, I tell my clients, If you have nothing to write, just write, I have nothing to write, I have nothing to write, I have nothing to write. You will, ultimately, start writing something. It's weird how it works.

[00:23:17] Tony Dufresne: So, journaling is, yeah, cause it all, it, cause it's, it almost is like a highway to, from your subconscious. And you start to write stuff. And literally you start writing stuff and then you're kind of reading as you're writing. And you're like, Oh my God, I just wrote that. What? Where'd this come from? And that's a, and that does happen.

[00:23:36] Tony Dufresne: And what that does is it gets you in touch with your inner true self. Cause really confidence comes down to, I call it big C little C. Little c confidence is contextual confidence. It's like confidence you can do a job, confidence in a particular social setting. The confidence that you're not gonna mess up in a speech. Whatever that's like small c stuff. But a lot of people think that's what confidence is and it's not. Confidence is big C which is just acceptance of true self.

[00:24:02] Tony Dufresne: It just you default back to I'm just gonna be me It's going to be good enough. I'm not chasing after acceptance from anybody because I accept myself and that's the big shift that needs to happen and that's and that's really true confidence The last thing I said three things of meditation journaling and then a thing a pattern interrupt and it's super simple And you've probably done it before a lot of people have but it's just the rubber band around the wrist That's it.

[00:24:29] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, the little flick. 

[00:24:30] Tony Dufresne: the little flick. That's it. And you would be, and it's, it's very, uh, it's very rudimentary and very Pavlovian too. Like Pavlov's dog type of thing, you know, ring the bell type of thing. It's called respond, it's called respondent conditioning. In psychology, and this is a physical pattern interrupt to where you're like, just snapping.

[00:24:52] Tony Dufresne: So, if you find yourself in a position where you find yourself in a thought process that's not working for you, or you're like, Oh no, I'm feeling bad about myself. Oh no, I'm feeling guilty about myself. Then just take the, and every, it's like every woman has a hair tie, right? Somewhere, right? And so she always put around, I mean, my daughter did 25 hours a day, every day.

[00:25:10] Tony Dufresne: So, I just say put that around your and then just just a little just a little flip. That's it You don't have to you know, create major damage and bleed from it but what that does is that interrupts that process and that pattern from a physical stimulation standpoint And you'd be amazed how quick you will not have to do the flick, and you'll catch yourself.

[00:25:33] Tony Dufresne: And once you catch yourself, you're able to make that pivot and reframe the reality. Because the reality is not, oh, I don't know what I'm doing, or oh, people think I'm terrible, or, you know, I'm an imposter here. The reality is, that's what you think in the moment. The reality also includes... You can also think, hey, I'm going to give it my best shot.

[00:25:54] Tony Dufresne: And you know, I'm an asset to whatever I'm doing right now. And, and this is where I want to be. And I'm just going to do the best I can. Do both of those realities exist in the same plane?

[00:26:04] Shanenn Bryant: And I think it's just that self-awareness, You know, once you start tracking it, even with that flick of the wrist is going, is going to set it in stone a little bit more in terms of like how often you're doing that because like, okay, my wrist, my wrist is sore. 

[00:26:19] Tony Dufresne: You're like, Oh man. Oh, I get that. Oh yeah. Yeah. I get that all the time from clients. Oh, I had to switch the thing over to the other side. I'm like, Oh, good.

[00:26:28] Shanenn Bryant: Right?

[00:26:28] Tony Dufresne: That just means you're picking it up and that's good. And again, this is a marathon.

[00:26:33] Tony Dufresne: It's not a sprint. It's a process. And it's in, you know, it's like turning the Titanic, you know, back in the day, when you wanted to turn the Titanic, you'd start the wheel, and the thing would start turning and it'd take like 10 miles to make the turn. It's huge. Your programming is. It's not in stone because there's a thing called neuroplasticity.

[00:26:51] Tony Dufresne: And over the past few years, there's been amazing research on neuroplasticity and the ability to change our neural pathways. We have the ability with meditation and journaling being two of the huge ways to do that. We have the ability to do that, but it takes time and it takes patience. And the one thing that I've seen with my clients is there just, there needs to be some self-compassion there.

[00:27:15] Tony Dufresne: And there needs to be some patience and some self-love given, I know that gets thrown around a lot, people go, oh, self-love. But you got to give yourself some space and be okay. And be okay with being, in the process, being okay with making mistakes and being in the process of being flawed and, and losing a lot of members of your tribe, by the way.

[00:27:34] Tony Dufresne: Because that will happen, because your tribe is based upon you as the old operational self and not the new, more advanced and more in touch self. And there's a lot of people that will have a hard time with that.

[00:27:48] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, yeah. Well, and like you said, I mean, this is the thing. No, is it earth shattering or groundbreaking, the journaling and the meditation? It isn't, but that's the thing is, we keep looking for like Well, what, well, what is the thing there has to be this thing and it's like, no, it's those things.

[00:28:09] Shanenn Bryant: So yeah.

[00:28:11] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. There's no quick fix. There's no whatever. It is those things. And that's why we continue to hear them all the time because they work. We just have to do them. And I think sometimes we ignore doing them because we're still trying to chase, you know, it's like the diet pill, like, give me the diet pill to fix this.

[00:28:30] Tony Dufresne: There's no Wygobie or Ozempic of, uh, you know, of... Fixing these type of things. And I think the hardest thing to realize is the fact that you, you see these things and they're very simple in concept, right? anybody can do them. You can start like right now, you don't need any training to journal.

[00:28:44] Tony Dufresne: You don't need any training to meditate. Or even to do your pattern interrupting. I think the hard part is the fact that it's so simple yet it's so difficult in the context of what you're trying to do. And so if you can just remember that in moving forward and just realize it's a, it's a long game, sometimes you will not see the improvements, you will not see the progress. It's not something you can, you know, tick down sometimes. It'll go up, it'll go down. But the thing is, it's a, you know, the curve is all, is always accelerating up. But you may be going like this, but you're going like this up.

[00:29:21] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. 

[00:29:22] Tony Dufresne: if you're prone to always looking at yourself and being hard on yourself. You're going to look at the down times, even in the, even in your progressive periods, you're going to look at the downtime. So you're going to identify, you're going to identify with that. Oh my gosh, I've been, I've been doing this, you know, therapy, or I've been doing this coaching for eight months or nine months.

[00:29:39] Tony Dufresne: And I'm still at the same place I was before. You're not at the same place. It may seem like it, but that's what coaches are for, or therapists are for, or a tribe that's going to support you. I cannot stress how important. A supportive tribe is. 

[00:29:56] Tony Dufresne: You gotta have it. 

[00:29:57] Shanenn Bryant: 100%. 100% agree. And the journaling thing. I think that shows when you're doing the journaling, that's a really good way to look back over. Okay. These were my thoughts 6 months ago. This is what I was worried about. These are the things that I was doing that I'm not doing because celebrating those successes is really important too.

[00:30:14] Shanenn Bryant: So, I think, again, that's where the journaling can come in as well.

[00:30:19] Tony Dufresne: Completely agree.

[00:30:20] Shanenn Bryant: Great! Tony, what do you see, like, what would be your best advice to women going forward as they're trying to, um, get more confidence, as they're trying to really come into their own? What, what's one piece of advice you would give them?

[00:30:38] Tony Dufresne: The first thing I would say is congratulations, you're at a higher level of self-realization than most people. Because you are. And I think you should acknowledge that. Because most people think they're fine. And they're not. They're an absolute, again, tire fire, right? But, if you, if you come to the conclusion that you need to make some changes, and you're looking for more confidence because you feel as though you, you're shrinking violet in situations, I would say, first of all, get some help.

[00:31:06] Tony Dufresne: Absolutely get some help. There's so many books out there. I've read... Literally hundreds of books. I don't you can't see my bookcase here on this stuff. And the fact of the matter is that you can read all you want. It's a conceptual thing, right? You can read all the one about certain things you can do, but if you don't apply it.

[00:31:23] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah.

[00:31:23] Tony Dufresne: it's not going to help you and the one thing that I realized is that you only apply it and you are only Accountable on a certain level on the level that you need to be If you're working with someone or if you're with a group, if you have a, if you're younger, find a mentor.

[00:31:41] Tony Dufresne: They're huge, right? So not only do you have like your own little tribe, but you have somebody that you can look up towards. It's like the, you know, what would Lincoln do type of thing. But it's really, and make sure, and make sure it's a woman mentor, because it's important in that circumstance, I think, to have that gender similarities in terms of moving forward, because we're still dealing with systemic things in society and work and whatnot, and I think it's really important.

[00:32:07] Tony Dufresne: I think a mentor is super important, uh, to have people around you that are supportive, not sycophants, not just a bunch of yes girls, but ones that really deeply care for you and ones that are supportive, and that's what I would suggest is, is start, uh, really taking a good look at who, It's around you in your life, what their message is to you, uh, find a mentor if you can, uh, or and or work with somebody, be it a coach or a therapist.

[00:32:38] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Well, Girl Dad, great coach, good friend. Thanks so much, Tony.

[00:32:46] Tony Dufresne: You're so welcome. Thank you. Thank you for, I love, I love the name Top Self. I know we talked about that a little bit. Right. Top shelf. Top self. I love it.

[00:32:55] Shanenn Bryant: that's right. Well, it is a little spin on that, too, and... I get that not everybody is going to catch up, but the whole top shelf thing came from, you know, part of my issue is with my dad and him being an alcoholic and, you know, top shelf alcohol, the whole thing. So I was like, okay, this makes sense to me.

[00:33:12] Shanenn Bryant: May not anybody else, but let's go with 

[00:33:13] Tony Dufresne: Wow. I mean, I, uh, and I gotta be honest with you. I didn't know that, but we could do a whole other show on both having alcoholic dads. That'd be fun.

[00:33:20] Shanenn Bryant: Oh yeah. Talk about it all day long. I know.

[00:33:25] Shanenn Bryant: Right. Okay. Yeah. So, part two coming up.

[00:33:29] Tony Dufresne: Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:33:31] Shanenn Bryant: All right. Thanks, Tony.

[00:33:32] Tony Dufresne: You are welcome. Thank you.