Reframing Friction For Relationship Growth w/ Dr. Rachel Glik EP 106

[00:00:58] Shanenn Bryant: Welcome back to another episode of Top Self. I have with me today, Dr. Rachel Glick. She is a licensed professional counselor with more than 30 years. You've been doing this for a while, 30 years as a couples and individual, therapist in your private practice. You've been featured on Fox 2:00 AM Show in St. Louis as a relationship. And mental health expert and, you've got a new book out. We are so excited for it called Soulful Marriage Healing, your Relationship with Responsibility, growth, priority, and Purpose. Welcome Dr. Glik.

[00:01:36] Dr. Rachel Glik: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:40] Shanenn Bryant: I'm so happy that you're here too. there's a lot of anxiety it seems like, around marriage. Either fear of commitment, am I picking the right person? Are they going to be faithful if I choose this person? why are we so afraid of relationships right now? Does that seem like it's across the board or just in my circle of people?

[00:02:01] Dr. Rachel Glik: I guess I see the gamut. I see people who rush into them on the one hand. and then I see people who, have fears and anxieties around the intimacy. Fears around not feeling a certain way that they always want to feel with a new person or if they've been through some, a divorce or have had divorce in their their family they have this trauma, it's a barrier to breakthrough and a lot of people are, have a fear that they're going to lose themselves and they're not going to be able to really have their needs met if they're committed to someone.

[00:02:33] Shanenn Bryant: That's interesting to think of the other side of, oh, I, I don't wanna lose myself. And there also could be, and now I expect this person to meet all of my needs

[00:02:44] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yes. 

handing it over to them. Yes. The extremes, for sure.Yes. 

[00:02:50] Shanenn Bryant: So you say that lasting love is a trainable skill. So, I think people want to know like, where do we send our spouses to this school?

[00:03:01] Dr. Rachel Glik: I love it. 

[00:03:02] Shanenn Bryant: not that it's them, it's everyone. But how do we do this?

[00:03:07] Dr. Rachel Glik: it's so funny you say that because one of the first messages that I hope to communicate through the book is that the impact that of our own personal work, growth work and really turning to ourself first to transform, to evolve, to heal, to feel whole is how we then can create a better impact with the people in our lives.

But we tend to want to externalize. And fix the outside, right? Like it's just natural. And so we want, so of course everybody, I'm hoping that people buy this book and share it with their spouses. But it’s also really the journey is mostly an internal one where you work on evolving. And growing inside yourself and then that's the layup for how you can then create a better relationship.

Of course it is, most, powerful and we could reach different levels when we are with a partner who is open to growing and open because that would we, we require in order to read this book. 'cause you have to be somewhat open and curious and interested in growth to some extent.

[00:04:12] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, and that makes sense and I'm wondering if you have thoughts on this because there probably are some people that are like, I really wish my wife would read this, or I really wish my husband would read this book, but they just don't seem to be interested in doing that. Are there anyway, like my husband, he will not pick up a book for anything.

And I love to read is do you have any advice for that situation? Like how can we still maybe get the messages to our partner or how do we do that?

[00:04:44] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yeah, it's a wonderful question. the first thing is to keep in mind to kind of slow down to speed up. In that the more that you, if you read, let's say you're reading the book or you're, or anything that you're reading to enhance yourself and you're finding things that you're learning about yourself, then really go deep into making that change and, and becoming the kind of partner that you know you will feel good inside yourself and that you like being aware of what your own. Kind of trigger areas are, and your own issues are, the more that you focus on that, that's so much of what creates the space between us and somebody else is our own barriers.

And that doesn't mean you take it on only on yourself, that you're only one who has the issues, but it's step one. And then you wanna think about. Kind of be in two places at once where you're receiving and giving at the same time. Because when you think about your partner and you think about what you know of them and what you love of them, and what you just know is who they are, and that's why you chose that person. And you can think about what is the best way that they will be able to receive some ideas that might help our relationship.

Like my husband, he happens to really care about us being close and connected. So, I, when I bring something up, this is when I'm doing it right. You know, when I'm not reactive and I work, When I'm in my best, when I'm doing it the way that I recommend and that I'm proud of, but is I come from a place of like, I know he will wanna feel comforted that we're okay. That this will help us be closer. So I want to bring up something that, that I think could be help us be closer, or that's bothering me that I, or I'm just curious about, I wonder why you're doing this, and so thinking about how someone will receive your message is you're giving while you're receiving, you know, you're going to hopefully receive something that'll help you be happier in the relationship, but you're thoughtful of them at the same time.

[00:06:30] Shanenn Bryant: Hmm mm-hmm. It makes me think, because I hear this. Often is, my partner says we can't constantly be working on our relationship, or we're focused too much on trying to fix things or what's wrong. Like maybe that's more of the lens of like we as anxious people in relationships or probably looking at those areas because that's part of it.

It's hard for us to see the positive, so we're looking at those negative areas and really worrying about them and probably bringing that to our partner. How much of working on the relationship is healthy in a way?

[00:07:08] Dr. Rachel Glik: that's, yeah, it's, it has to be balanced in it's case by case and it's day by day when we get really ungrounded and we are not feeling, whole and secure inside of ourselves, it's so easy to. Like, find all these things wrong with what our partner is doing.  And they're all probably valid.

It's not that that's not the case, but the key is the more you get yourself more grounded. And, and then also keeping in mind, I was just talking with, someone before meeting with you, a client. Where there's been so much focus on the heaviness and what's wrong in the relationship, and this person is not, her husband is not somebody who like, who really is that interested in growing.

It doesn't make sense to him. It just, it's, he's a good man. It just doesn't make sense to him. So, once she's realized that she's really committed to staying, then I'm really trying to help her to really go all in and commit and focus on. Enjoying what's good till you get calmer until you feel like you are more relaxed, and then you can start to find clever ways and creative ways to invite him into a more intimate dynamic that you're looking for. but there's also the other extreme where some people don't bring enough up and then it gets too late and then it's over, but it all has to be case by case, and there definitely is a point where it's too much focus on the problems in the relationship, and that doesn't help us move forward.

[00:08:30] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. 'cause part of it seems like we always wanna solve something, like we gotta solve it right now. we've gotta fix it right now because oh my gosh, there's a problem. There's a problem in our relationship.

[00:08:41] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yeah, and that's usually because we're feeling a feeling we don't wanna feel  and we want release. So, if we can learn to embrace and trust the process that our uncomfortable feelings. Are here to guide us, to teach us, to help us make changes. Then we grow our bandwidth and be more patient with those difficult times.

But we wanna rush and make it feel better right away. It's just human nature. There's nothing wrong with doing with us for wanting that. It just doesn't, it's reactive and versus proactive. when we are reactive, we only plant seeds that keep us in the same patterns.

[00:09:17] Shanenn Bryant: That makes sense because I think about it in the same of, just anything, even trying to relate it to being creative or you've got a big problem outside of the marriage to solve. It usually comes when, okay, I've given it some thought, I've given it some attention, and then I kind of lay off of it for a minute and then all of a sudden, oh, okay, here's the solution.

 So, it sounds like you're saying it's very similar to 

[00:09:41] Dr. Rachel Glik: It is totally, it's, and it's counterintuitive. We wanna go into the thick of it, but I, we, my husband and I studied the wisdom of Kabbalah and we learned that early on, about 20 years ago, that you wanna, a lot of things are counterintuitive so that you can start to, awaken the power that we have within us that we don't capitalize on and realize.

And so, when we were taught that like it's good to step aside from it.

And then that lets like other parts from the perspective of the brain, even thinking about it from the brain, lets like higher levels of the brain, way deeper, brainwaves become more present and you get better guidance and wisdom and then things happen that are unexpected. Like you get support, like I was telling you earlier when we were talking about the book, like things just happen when you, we have, you know, our, our, our mind does a lot of fascinating things in our lives.

[00:10:28] Shanenn Bryant Yeah, because you were really thinking about this book, I mean, 10 years ago and starting it and like, uh, you know, let me do something else for a bit. Who knows what all, I'm sure there were many things in that journey, and then I. Which I think is interesting because I wanted to bring up the commitment piece that you talked about but is like as soon as you committed to it and said, okay, I'm gonna do this, everything started to fall in line to really help you and then give you that push and support.

[00:10:57] Dr. Rachel Glik: Exactly, and I had my own, when I really examined it, more deeply, it was my own fears and insecurities. That were stopping me from moving forward. What if people don't like it? What if nobody reads it? What if only 10 people wouldn't read the book? What if I don't have my free time like I want? Which I didn't, but it didn't matter.

I was so grateful to be immersed in it, it's just good to, again, to understand I had a breakthrough, some of those in order to be fully committed.

[00:11:22] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. And same thing in the relationship. That's why I wanted to bring up that commitment part. 'cause you said something very interesting about, Committing this person who you were talking to, once she committed to stay, and I'm wondering how important that is. So if you're in a relationship, you're having a lot of problems and maybe this has been going on for a while and I am just, again, could be my circle, I don't know.

Or just who I hear from. But sometimes we're just so quick to start thinking about leaving the relationship and I'm wondering how that, how much that plays into how can we solve it? If like our thought process is, how do I get out of this 

[00:12:03] Dr. Rachel Glik: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:04] Shanenn Bryant: or do I wanna get out of it? So is committing to staying when you're having problems, is that an important part of the steps?

[00:12:10] Dr. Rachel Glik: Such a good question. I think that what I, first of all, it's natural to have doubts, because that means you're growing and when we have doubt about something, it's the beginning of getting, it's the process through which we can create an opportunity to get more clear. And it's showing us where we have some areas of growth and I, what I find is that there's so many things that dilute us to think that the problem is our partner.

So I would, I just usually try to buy time with clients and with myself, my husband and I had doubts in my relationship earlier on and we've been married for 36 years and those times it felt so real that I didn't think I could live with how I was feeling at the time.

[00:12:53] Shanenn Bryant: Mm. 

[00:12:53] Dr. Rachel Glik: And, but the commitment did pull us through. 'cause I just knew that I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't really lean in and do. Quote the work, really

do the hard stuff and really look at myself. And that's really what started a lot of my introspecting and a lot of my self-reflecting and self-examining was I didn't expect to feel an emptiness in my marriage.

'cause I was so sure about my husband when I met him. But what I recommend is that you to. To commit to at least the process.

Sometimes it's overwhelming to commit that, yes, I'm staying with this person for the rest of my life. That can feel so daunting if you don't feel fulfilled, or if you feel hurt or you feel, especially after portrayal or lots of things where you just, it's too much so you can at least commit to, I'm gonna give my 100% to the process. 

To become the, you know, the best version of myself that I can be, and see what this process of difficulty is gonna show me about my growth and their growth and where we can grow together, 

and then try to postpone the answer. And then at some point I find there's a point where you reach, I find this with myself and this, this woman I met with earlier, is that maybe that she's far enough in the relationship that she knows all the issues,

[00:14:04] Shanenn Bryant: Right.

[00:14:04] Dr. Rachel Glik: and like it's not, she's leaning into the difficulty, but it's also a point of accepting and then committing in a different way.

There's different, I guess, levels of commitment

[00:14:13] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. That's interesting. And it, I guess it. Is another, another positive to being able to say, hey, I don't have to solve this right now. You said it kind of as buy myself time. So even the buying yourself time is a way to commit to the process, because if we're anxious and we're like, oh, I, I have to figure this out right now, then we're quick to jump the gun.

I'm like, which direction should I go? Should I stay? Should I leave? If you can't go, okay, wait a second. It doesn't have to be solved right now. And then if I can step back, it helps me to commit to the process.

[00:14:49] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yes, I have a whole section and an addendum at the end, should I stay, or should I go? And it's like a series of questions you ask yourself first about yourself, have I done this myself? Have I examples of what I shared earlier? have I done everything I can to find out what my growth areas are and am I really putting a lot of effort into those? And then there's seven maybe questions that you ask about yourself, and then there's seven questions to ask about who you're with, And so it's also to consider are they somebody that you think I can grow with? Are how invested are they in the growth process?

And, so it's, that I've written blogs about that and then I, that's why, and it's been very helpful for people. So that's why I decided to include it in the book.

Yeah, I put this in the book because people need it. Yes.

[00:15:34] Shanenn Bryant: I think a lot of times, when we say, oh, there are problems in the marriage or in the relationship, usually the first sign is okay, we're starting to have arguments. We're starting to have disagreements. But arguments or disagree or disagreements might not always be negative, right?

[00:15:54] Dr. Rachel Glik: Absolutely. Yes. And that's the, I have four pillars in the book. And the second pillar is when most people come see me for therapy. And that's the, it's the growth pillar, and that one is where you start having friction, where you're not start, or you're embroiled in it perhaps. 

And your needs aren't being met or something, whatever is happening in your relationship, that you are having conflict, you're having tension, and that only means that you are being called to grow. So, I really try to reframe friction and seeing it help you see it as a good sign. That means because people who are really gonna have long lasting energy in the relationship, like charge, like where you feel, the desire to be near each other and there's like it's fresh is

when you're growing. And so, you're supposed to push each other's buttons. We're not supposed to stay the same. And as you evolve, you, your love deepening, love grows out of the person you start becoming as a result of being in the relationship.

[00:16:52] Shanenn Bryant: right. 'cause I would imagine, especially, you know, if the idea is I want a long-term relationship here, I think we don't think about it in terms of like, well, I hope that we're both different in some way in 20 years from now.

[00:17:05] Dr. Rachel Glik: Right? 

[00:17:07] Shanenn Bryant: But we don't think about it really that way.

[00:17:08] Dr. Rachel Glik: exactly. we're pretty wired for comfort. We wanna predictable. We wanna know that what we have right now is gonna be what it is. Or some people get into a relation thinking, it'll get better later. And that's not such a good idea. Should like what we have now before committing, but yeah, this is something where it's counterintuitive and this is why I felt it was so important to write the book. From things that my husband and I learned together through our difficulties, made us search for spirituality, search for more answers. And I went deeper into also in my professional life, really trying to understand how things, how, how you really create long lasting love. And this is why this pillar is so important, is to see your relationship is your purpose is to grow. And that means you're gonna have to have conflict. 'cause whenever there's growth, there's some sort of confusion. Confusion isn't bad either. Or there's some sort of need that is conflicting with one another or. There's so many things that cause conflict.

[00:17:59] Shanenn Bryant: You're not gonna grow at the same pace either. So one person might have a big growth spurt and a lot of change in their life, and the partner might be lagging behind, maybe in a sense.

[00:18:10] Dr. Rachel Glik: Absolutely, yes, that definitely happens. And sometimes you grow in ways that don't align anymore, and I personally think that's okay. But are you still going through a process where you're making sure that you're not leaving it too soon? Before you examine, maybe this is just here to help me grow. What if I lean into these changes that are happening in my partner or, and see if there might be a way that we can still stay within the same structure we have?

[00:18:37] Shanenn Bryant: Because I hear that a lot like, well, what if, you know what if I start to make all of these changes and I'm growing and my partner isn't, then what do I do? What happens?

[00:18:50] Dr. Rachel Glik: That one is one of the most common things that I, that we, our friends change or when we really start growing

[00:18:56] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. 

[00:18:56] Dr. Rachel Glik: and evolving, it just is natural. But I find that with the, within our, and I first of all would say, don't stop growing. don't be afraid to grow and then back up. And, just still keep growing, but you can also do it thoughtfully I know I'm an extreme personality, so when I discover something, I go, wanna go all in. But I know my growth, paradoxically, is to sometimes slow down with it. Not in my passion inside for it, but in my actualization perhaps, because I wanna be thoughtful of people wanna around you wanna make sure that they know your heart and so they don't, you don't seem so strange to them.

[00:19:31] Shanenn Bryant: Right.

[00:19:31] Dr. Rachel Glik: So that's, on the one hand, you wanna be careful about your changing and thoughtful at the same time. If you're really finding that your growth is like awakening things in you that you just don't feel in alignment anymore with so many important things. if a lot of times it's like gossip. let's say you've evolved and you.

You realize like that's negative. I don't wanna be part of that. Makes me feel icky inside. and you're around people who are, or your partner is spending all, the only way that you really can relate is because you're talking bad about other people. That's gonna become a problem. So that's not gonna align with your kind of frequency of lack of a better word anymore, or your, the way you wanna live your life.

So there are things that have to be addressed when you're growing, but you can still do it carefully without judging, without, Saying the whole relationship is over because of that person doesn't, isn't on board. 

You just, that person may not have realized that in their own life and you can take it step by step.

[00:20:23] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, and certainly as long as they're not, hindering or have some problem with your growth or what you're doing to make changes in your life, then again, it's okay, let's see. Let's see what happens. 

[00:20:38] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yes. Yeah. And that, and again, each person is gonna be at a different pace. Some might be open to growing, but not at the same pace.

but if it, if there's really a big disparity in your desire to grow, it is, I think it is good to talk about in your relationship, because that's something my husband and I talk about.

if we're in a different place on something, I'll, I try not to avoid. Void it or over bring it up at the same time. But I'll let 'em know that I wanna be close for the long haul. So if we aren't, you know, how can we find a way to find common ground in this one area that I'm getting maybe excited about or maybe he's getting excited about so that we can still stay connected.

So how you position it, and that's why when I talk about friction being a good sign, it's so important is the how you address the friction is gonna make all the difference.

[00:21:26] Shanenn Bryant: so that kind of brings me to this question. If we have a partner, and I'm not picking on the sexes. I'm sure it's not all just one sided, but if we have a partner who maybe isn't willing to go to therapy, if there are things that are happening or they're not willing to, ever, entertain anything that you bring to the table, what's your suggestion for that person if they're really not getting the agreement on the other end to make improvements or to at least attempt those improvements.

[00:22:01] Dr. Rachel Glik: I do see a lot of couples where the, by the time they are coming, it's because she often, it is the woman, but, has been wanting to come and a partner was not willing. And then now when she's really ready to leave, then they come. so that's a little harder to back up from, but it can still work from there.

So I think letting your partner know how seriously unhappy you are and that you are before having the affair or before actually going to the door. So say, it's actually getting serious for me. And as much as I love what we've created, I’m considering that we may not make it if we don't, you know, like, you know, not like getting too over dramatic, but really Letting them know. The other thing is that you could get a book, like hopefully, like you would find value in my book and you could find a lighter way to, I'm doing this with one couple, but he finally did agree to come where, um, where they're reading, like together, where they're taking turns, they each have a copy. and see if they just read something of a couple pages and then talk about it together.

[00:22:59] Shanenn Bryant: And and if somebody isn't willing to do that, then that becomes a little harder to work with.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Any advice in terms of before we get into a marriage with someone? Any advice on questions we should ask our partner. Things that we should, I don't wanna talk about like necessarily red flag type things. 'cause I think it's everybody's, like, I'm always looking for red flags, maybe green flags.

Maybe that's what we should talk about. But I think more, any questions that we should ask as we're dating or in serious relationships before we take that plunge to get married, that might help us to. Make sure that at least at the start of the journey we're lined up.

[00:23:44] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yes. A lot of people don't do that. They just feel such the, you know, the hormones and the excitement that they, it's really easy to overlook things. It could be an issue and some you don't even think to ask.

But I would ask, about growth. Just get a feel for how open you are, how you know, asking your partner how open you are to leaning into conflict in a way that we might be able to see it as an opportunity to grow.

And where do you and, and open to change? Do you feel, like people can say, yeah, I'm open to change, but like, and look for cues, look for like how do they handle it? Can they, do they have insight Because that is something that can be developed, but some really have hard time self-reflecting and they can only see the issue is the other person, and that's also hard to work with.

But can you have a conflict? Take a pause and each self-reflect with how you're each contributing to the problem or the conflict. And if you see that your partner's able to realize later that they made you know that I can see where that bothered you showing some empathy. And that would be, those are like emotional intelligence

[00:24:48] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:49] Dr. Rachel Glik: are empathy, being able to regulate your emotions, self-awareness, and you don't have to be like, great at it, but willing to at least, touch it and get a little better at it.

[00:25:00] shanenn-bryant_1_01-08-2025_160424: I'm wondering, do you feel like if we a, if asking them, how they're like, how was conflict handled? In their house, in their home growing up and like, what did they think about that? Do you feel like that gives any insight into maybe how they would handle it, or are people kind of, tend to be different than 

[00:25:21] Dr. Rachel Glik: Good question.

I think it's a great question, but should then come with a follow up, which is, how did was that, how did you like that? And do you find that you do that, or do you feel like you should do it differently? because sometimes we get, we model something that we really like and we consciously choose to do it.

Like that worked so well for my parents and so, I would like. Keep doing that or this is how they did it and I'm open to doing it differently because I don't know that's the best way or I don't know if you'll like that way.

[00:25:49] Shanenn Bryant: Right. 

[00:25:50] Dr. Rachel Glik: It really does affect us. Like my husband and I just had a conversation on Sunday because we had some conflict we haven't had in a little while 'cause we've been together so long.

But it still happens. No doubt about it. And so, we took some time on our own in the house and then we came back together and sure enough, something came up about how we watched our parents and the roles they played. Was impacting us and we decided, okay, so does that mean we're gonna keep doing it that way or, okay, let's see how we might be able to tweak it to do it our our way and not their way.

[00:26:20] Shanenn Bryant: A lot of times people compare marriages to like, oh, how our friends, our friends do it this way. Well, this is how most people do it. And I just want wonder your thoughts 

[00:26:35] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yeah. 

[00:26:36] Shanenn Bryant: should we try to stay in the norm? I think it's kind of human nature to like, I wanna fit in, but how much do we stay in the norm?

Does it matter?

[00:26:44] Dr. Rachel Glik: I think it's good to have role models of people who you think, do things like a relationship role model is really hard to come by, but it's really good to have, and you don't know what happens behind closed doors though, and how they really handle things, you know? But as best as you can to have people that you who. Share their story and how they handled it and really like model after them. But you still need to be careful because you're not gonna be like them. And then similar to comparing is like in my book I talk about self-love and one of the self-love destroyers is comparing. So, then it's also important to be careful not to compare too much because we create this schema in our mind that. We, we have expectations that we think our partner should be like this one schema. And it's kind of like outwardly perfectionism turned outward. Like we, we have an inner critic, and we have an outer critic, which is an extension of one from the other, but we expect our partner to be this one certain way. And then we decide that's the only way that I can be okay. I can only get my needs met if they're that way. It's really just not true and it's not fair to really to do that. People are human and we have so many different gifts and so many different neurologists and weaknesses and personalities and desires and I would be careful with the comparing, but the role modeling is good.

[00:27:55] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, because I just think, that's such a common question, you know, especially, um, you, you know, you might call your girlfriend, like, would, would you be upset about this? Or what do you think about this? So, I just wondered your thoughts on it. 

[00:28:09] Dr. Rachel Glik: Yeah. 

[00:28:11] Shanenn Bryant: Thank you so much, um, the, a soulful marriage, healing, your relationship with responsibility, growth, priority, and purpose.

Go get the book. Thank you so much, Dr. Rachel.

[00:28:24] Dr. Rachel Glik: It's my pleasure. 

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