When The Hot And Heavy Turns To Just Heavy w/ Dr. Corey Allen EP 66

[00:00:00] Shanenn Bryant: Welcome back to another episode of Top Self. I'm your host, Shanenn Bryant, and I have with me today Corey Allen, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist with more than 20 years in the marriage and sex therapy field. You and your wife also have a podcast together, right called Sexy Marriage Radio.

[00:01:21] Dr. Corey Allen: That is correct.

[00:01:22] Shanenn Bryant: That's really a place where people can ask those like burning questions that they've been wanting to ask you and learn from you, your wife and other experts. I'm going to be a guest on your show as well, so I'm excited for this exchange. One of the things I want to say before we get going is I've listened to your podcast um, you and your wife are like 30 years married?

[00:01:47] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah, we are actually.

[00:01:49] Shanenn Bryant: Well, I thought, okay, he's 30 years married to his wife and they can work together on daily basis. Like I'm pulling my chair up, Corey. 

[00:01:56] I am like I'm listening to every word you are saying and I know the listeners will too. So congratulations on that. That's amazing.

[00:02:04] Dr. Corey Allen: Thank you. And I mean, our, our statement we make about that is, yes, we've been married for 30 years and 24 or 25 of them have been pretty good. So there have been parts that absolutely were not, but by going through 'em, uh, it's created a value for us that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

[00:02:22] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, I bet. Well, and I can relate to that because, you know, this is a podcast about jealousy and insecurity, and of course most people talk about what they know. I unfortunately know it very well. I it in my life and so did my husband, experienced it with me. So I understand that like the first five years were not fun us and, um, we're coming up on our 15th year, so you learn a lot and you grow a lot together. I kind of want to really start there you know, we get into relationships when we first get into 'em they're hot, heavy. Like, oh, you're the greatest thing that's ever happened. I could never see myself getting upset with you and angry. that fades, it’s no longer the like, oh my gosh, you're the perfect, most perfect person I've ever seen. When someone is already struggling with jealousy and insecurity, they start to take that sort of calmness to mean something else.

[00:03:26] So can you first talk about how that relationship goes from like, gosh, we're hot and heavy and now we're like, pick up your socks? 

[00:03:35] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, there's a couple things that go on with this Shanenn. Uh, one is when we meet and fall in love with somebody new, uh, we actually are in a chemically induced high in the brain. I mean, that's, there's a chemical that's called phenylalamine. Uh, if you wanna just get technical,

[00:03:51] it floods your brain, and it lasts anywhere from six months to two years, is what research and science has found. Why there's a variance among people I've not come across how or what makes the differences, but, uh, that's what creates the euphoric, obsessive rose colored glasses. All the idealized things that we come into relationships with. And I frame it, it also gets magnified because we actually have just met each other's marketing departments only at point, because we're usually on our best behaviors at the beginning of things right. And so they haven't met the back office staff

[00:04:28] Shanenn Bryant: Mmm. Such a good way to put it.

[00:04:31] Dr. Corey Allen: Absolutely. And I mean, 'cause everybody's got a janitorial staff and an administrative staff and an HR department. Everybody's got all of that. And we don't know all those people yet that are going on in this company that we've just met, nor do they know mine. Which then creates this disillusionment, uh, uncertainty, fear, which I'm assuming with a lot of what you're describing, that's where all of a sudden now, wait, I don't get the same kind of feeling produced by our relationship, so therefore there must be something wrong here. Rather than, no, that's what relationships do because outside of major things happening in life. We can't recreate that feeling in the same relationship.

[00:05:19] But what we can do is create more bonding moments that create a deeper connection, which is a whole lot more profound than that idealize that we had at the beginning. It just isn't, it isn't as fraught with all of the emotions.

[00:05:35] It's actually more of a known and being known feeling it's more of a connectedness where you've gone through some things together and you've seen each other at your best and at your worst, and, and you still find the way to muster up conversations and connections and, and everything that's involved, right?

[00:05:54] And so,

[00:05:55] there, there's a natural progression that comes across with every relationship. I try to tell clients and listeners all the time that's a normal thing, right?

[00:06:02] It's it, it will happen. And so rather than trying to, uh, capture and recreate the past, you're usually better by understanding what's really going on and being required of me here to create something new with each other.

[00:06:19] 

[00:06:19] Shanenn Bryant: Is that maybe why we're so drawn.. 'cause I feel like sometimes people are just like relationship after relationship after relationship. 

[00:06:25] Like that's over, it's like they're addicted to that high that you get you know it's the first kiss or whatever it is.

[00:06:32] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah. The relationship's relatively easy at that point too, because

[00:06:35] it's, fueled by what we have created in our minds between each other,

[00:06:40] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-Hmm.

[00:06:41] Dr. Corey Allen: but it also, inevitably, in long-term relationships, puts a tremendous amount of pressure on your spouse or your partner to sustain that. Which nobody can for another person. We have a hard enough time ourselves, let alone be there to prop somebody else up all the way through.

[00:06:59] Shanenn Bryant: What jealous sufferers also do is take that to be a sign of like, you know, I was the coolest girlfriend until I had feelings, until that stuff started to fade, then it was like, okay, this feels different to me. I don't feel as attractive to that person anymore.

[00:07:18] I don't feel as sexy or as hot and now I start to notice. But they're seeing other people who do peak their interest almost seems like, oh, I'm noticing other people. I don't really notice her anymore 'cause she's always there.

[00:07:31] Dr. Corey Allen: Okay. Well, I mean, on, on the surface level, yes, that's probably true. But then you're talking about if you've got any longevity, like you're describing 15 years into a relationship, you guys know each other. I mean, you've, gone through some stuff at, at 15 years. So, um, there's a, there's a difference that it's rocky to get through some things to get to that other side where you actually start to realize, hold on. The way I, uh, synthesize what is attractive or not starts to morph and adjust as my marriage and relationship does too. I mean, 30 years into it with my wife, she's the standard of attraction to me.

[00:08:11] There's an element of when you start to realize, 'cause I look at things through the psychobabble term is differentiation. And that's the ability, easiest way to describe it is emotional, psychological maturity if you will. know, wisdom, character, integrity, all it's, it's, it's a lot more than just. I'm, I'm more mature or something. And so, but it's a level of grown upness and how they approach life and handle things.

[00:08:39] And when you start to be alongside somebody that really is exhibiting that, how could that not be attractive?

[00:08:47] Because realize they don't need as much from me. They want from me.

[00:08:52] Yes. But I don't need to assure them all the time, nor be assured as much, which that just attracts a better relationship in the long run.

[00:09:02] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-Hmm. Well, and assurance. I'm so glad that you brought that up because that is the one thing, and you said “You can't keep that up for an entire relationship.”  When people are in this jealous cycle, that's what happens is, I'm feeling insecure, I'm feeling jealous. You did something that I'm interpreting as you know, hurting me or not, right?

[00:09:23] So now I need you to reassure me.

[00:09:26] If the partner re reassures them, it lasts for a little bit, but then that just starts all over 

[00:09:31] again. Right. kind of addiction to that reassurance, which is impossible for the partner to keep that up. 

[00:09:39] You 

[00:09:39] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah. It, it can't it can't ever be satisfied from either one of them actually, if you continue in the same cycle.

[00:09:46] Shanenn Bryant: So, when somebody's noticing, okay, this is starting to fade a little bit, or maybe they've just went through, a change in their relationship. Maybe they had kids, and all the focus was there. They're, they're starting to grow up and now like, oh, where are You talked about building stronger bonds. Can you give us maybe a couple ways we could do that, or at least one way that we can start to build that?

[00:10:09] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, so a lot of this I, I like to think of life as a series of chapters or seasons when you took, when you look at relationships, I mean, the joking way my wife and I refer to this is we've had five marriages with each other. It's one continuous marriage, but there's five distinct chapters in our marriage so far, and we're on the cusp of six because our youngest is a high schooler in a couple years out.

[00:10:32] Right. so, it's like we can see we're already getting tastes of the previews of what life would look like next to a degree. And so being able to recognize one that's a normal thing, having kids, um, moving states, changing jobs, having loss of a parent. I mean, all these kinds of things are markers of these used to be anchors in my life as part of my identity.

[00:10:57] And the way I think of it is first and foremost, if, if I want something that's more on a, uh, growth trajectory, the, the foundation has to be how I develop myself, not my spouse. How I evolve and confront the worst in myself, confront my own insecurities.

[00:11:21] And if nothing else, I mean, tell me if this makes sense to you. Shanenn, with, just 'cause we're getting to know each other too here.

[00:11:28] with the cycle you described that it, it can manifest itself in the worst in us, but I can have that same cycle happen from the better part of me by being able to say, Hey, I realize I often can go off the deep end with insecurity and jealousy here, and I'm in one of those modes, and you're kind of just telling your partner that you're, you're owning it differently rather than it's the drill down.

[00:11:54] It's the checking all the time. It's the, how can I catch you? I need you, you know, it's

[00:11:59] so most time. When I get real, uh, caught up in my own desperation, I actually push people away, right? Because most of us see desperation cannot be satisfied.

[00:12:13] right. And I would be honest with myself. I don't necessarily like myself in this mode either, right?

[00:12:18] It's not like they're 

[00:12:19] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. 

[00:12:20] Dr. Corey Allen: willingly choosing this. It's just, it's a pattern. So even just by recognizing, uh, through my own self validation and self-confronting of, alright, I'm in that season, this is faded. My pattern has been, it wears off. I get clingy, I get desperate, I get insecure, I get, and if you can at least kind of just air that and then not in a sense of, okay, dude or honey, I need, it's. I want this out in the open because I don't want it to wreak as much havoc as it has in the past.

[00:12:57] Our brains hear that differently when I vocalize it like that.

[00:13:01] Shanenn Bryant: A hundred percent. Thank you so much for talking about that. It was one of the things, like I had to have conversations differently with my husband because after so long, I mean, he's a very patient man, but geez, Louise. Like,

[00:13:15] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah.

[00:13:15] Everybody will only take for so long. Yeah. They'll only, we'll, only our threshold will get met at some point.

[00:13:21] Shanenn Bryant: Yes. And., I like how you were talking about, you know, let, let me just work on me maybe they started therapy or maybe they have a coach now or they're working on it themselves and they want their partner to notice, like when you start noticing the differences internally and they want their partner to notice like right away partner's still working on...I'm still an old pattern of what we've been doing. So I think you saying like, let's change the communication and, and bring it to the forefront differently, 

[00:13:53] I think is good. 

[00:13:55] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, and that's the, the, the goal of that to also build on what you're describing too, of you start making a little bit of a metamorphosis internally. I mean, again, I use the visualization of this is the iceberg. The work's going on under the water here. So, nobody sees it, but you, nobody knows. Everybody only sees above the surface, and that's the behaviors, right? And so, a lot of times those don't bubble up for a while,

[00:14:19] but I'm doing some reorg down low, and I want assurances for that, or I want confirmation and validation of that because we all want to be validated. That is a human trait. Want to be noticed. If I care any iota about how people might perceive me. That's how I figure out what I'm wearing that day. That's how I figure how I walk, where I go, what I drive, all of those things to extremes or vanity. But we all have it to a degree of, I want that validation, but we have to, in my mind, the first thing where I solidify myself the most and create more of a solid self and more self-validation is in the absence of other validation. 

[00:15:04] So when I don't get it, I get the opportunity to shore up. I still see a difference in me, and I am proud of I speak the truth to my partner about, I'm in one of those modes and they could freak them out, and I don't care how it went. I'm proud of the fact I vocalized it. Look at me, yay me. That was awesome.

[00:15:24] They'll come around later or they won't. That's not my, that's not my goal. My goal is I have owned me better. The presence of them, and that's, that's an incredibly powerful move for relationships.

[00:15:37] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, so much so. What happens a lot of times when we're working on ourselves, our partner hasn't quite noticed yet. By the time somebody gets to me, it's because their relationship is in like...I mean they, it's rough. 

[00:15:50] And most likely their partner said, I am not doing this I can’t do it one more time. You've got to stop. You know, that's the situation. So then when they do start working on themselves, they're afraid that that other person, because they still can't see it, is going to leave that relationship.

[00:16:08] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:09] Shanenn Bryant: 

[00:16:09] Dr. Corey Allen: that's, but that's, 

[00:16:10] Shanenn Bryant: kind of 

[00:16:11] Dr. Corey Allen: that's a fear of every relationship. I mean, you mentioned at the beginning, I've been married to my wife, Pam for 30 years. Uh, we're supposed to have dinner tonight as we're recording this. Tragedy could happen on her way home, God forbid. Right. so, I have to live knowing. I hope she comes home. She may choose otherwise. I mean, I spoke to right before we got on here, but she may choose otherwise, I don't know. I, I mean that is the world in which we live, and I have to live in that kind of uncertainty all the time. Which means, I gotta shore myself up and my own solidness to be able to handle, I'll address whatever happens. I can't keep it from happening. I just address it. And by doing that, that's a growing up process,

[00:16:56] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-Hmm.

[00:16:57] Dr. Corey Allen: 

[00:16:57] it requires more of your partner too, because that's the beauty of this whole philosophy in my mind when I really do, and part of what's created the five chapters in our marriage is each one of those were true growth steps by one of us. It's like, you know what I'm doing life. I, I'm taking this differently in how I've handled this from this point forward. I'm, and it's not that demonstrative, but it's kind of looking back at it kind of was. It was just like, not again. I'm not doing it that way anymore. I'm doing it this way, which then meant she had to, she had to reorg and figure out what she wanted to do. And then the reverse happened when she made a, a change on some things, like, I'm going to do this. I'm like, okay, well you just changed the rules slightly. Not hugely, but you, okay, well then that's going to require me to show up better and, and deal with things different because, in the long run, what it, what I think all of us want as humans. I want a full grown, fully functional partner alongside And when tragedy and real struggle hits, I'll carry 'em. I'll lean, they can lean on me, I'll help them in that moment, but I don't wanna do that every single day.

[00:18:05] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, so good. Um, so what's like, the thing that you see come up in relationships the most, that you think, this is actually pretty easily to, to be solved, but couples struggle with it all the 

[00:18:19] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, yeah,Um, The way I think of things is I'll ask clients usually at the beginning I'll ask them, um, do you think the source of the dynamic you guys have and the problems you have, and I'm taking out the symptoms of it, which would be like a betrayal or some of the behaviors or some of those things because there's all still systems in that, in that there's dynamics at play in this relationship. Like, do you guys think that you're too close together or you're too far apart actually? And, and usually most clients guess they say too far apart. It's like, we don't know each other. It's parallel lives. But I actually see it as, no, you're too close to each other. You're, you're smothering each other.

[00:19:00] And so therefore, to stand up and have a differing belief or a differing desire is too threatening. Because it's received as you're changing the rules or you know, because we don't want to change. I, and know, because some of it is I haven't let go of what I, we started with. Right. I still want that. And so I think if couples can see, most of the time the source of my problems are when I infused with my spouse and there's not room for the variances of the nuances between us.

[00:19:33] Shanenn Bryant: Interesting.

[00:19:35] Dr. Corey Allen: I love to think of this as the, the better target for a really good marriage and sex life and relationship is room for two unique people in, in its entirety. They're quirks and all they're mistakes and all because it's real easy. You know, 15 years, 30 years, I got plenty of ammo on my wife if I want to just jugular, as does she me. But what does that say? That means I'm doing it out of insecurity and hurt. And so that, that's the hurt people, hurt people mentality.

[00:20:09] And wait, if I'm hurt by something that's gone on, well that's on me to deal with my hurt. She doesn't need to make up for the hurt. She can be alongside it with me. That's different. 

[00:20:20] Well I can't talk to a marriage and sex therapist without talking about sex, I'm going to do that a little bit here. before we wrap up. What should couples be talking about when it comes to sex that they're not or are afraid to? 

[00:20:37] Dr. Corey Allen: Everything! Um, 

[00:20:38] well, 

[00:20:39] Shanenn Bryant: I agree and I haven't even heard the rest, but go on.

[00:20:42] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, I think one of the things that matters, and this is what our show focuses on, is, um, I, sex is not just an act, sex is a part of who we are, right. That there's,

[00:20:54] there's a sexuality. It is a part of our identity. And so we, we use the phrase, how you do sex is how you'll do life, and how you do life is how you'll do sex.

[00:21:05] Those are always interchangeable.And, and so a lot of times, one is that just the mere fact of talking about things Mm-Hmm. incredibly beneficial thing to do, uh, to be playful. To use the energy to have a banter that's not attached to an immediate ne uh, hope for outcome, but make it just part of the repertoire, because that's, again, look at it, that energy early on is just there. It's just flowing with no problem. And both of you are totally on board, usually much more easily.

[00:21:40] Right. Well, life comes in and other responsibilities and identities shift and morph and everything, well, it's not one person will be a lower desire. That's just a reality. If you can keep a banter and an energy that gets little moments, that's a fantastic plus to the relationship and starting to see it as we use the phraseology too of married Sex is a long game. Like I'll make a bantering move towards my wife, or she'll make some statement to me and it may come into fruition in three days from now.

[00:22:12] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah.

[00:22:12] That's that, that's fine in a lot of because kind of where we want it. Then we just bring it up and if they say yes, fantastic. And if they say no, okay, well then I'll just wait. We'll try again later. You know, and it's just, you kind of see it as it's much less an act. It's actually part of our relationships, part of ourselves. And so I think most couples have trouble talking about this subject because their experience talking about it is when something went wrong. Right. If you think about it, most the time it's like, like, what's, what happened?

[00:22:43] What's wrong? And now all of a sudden, we're both defensive, we're both accusatory, we're both hurt.

[00:22:48] Of course, that's not gonna go well. It's like, I mean, I've yet to ever meet somebody where sex is happening and disconnects didn't naturally occur, and it gets taken personal and all of a sudden they're like, oh, hold on. Tell me what happened. Really? And you're both just, no, it's. guard's up, that's that encounter's over, that's fine. Come

[00:23:12] back debrief it later. But the other thing is start bringing it up at other options. Other times, other, hey, I came across this idea and I thought that was kind of cool. Or, hey, what are some of the things that we've been doing you really love? Or here's some things I really love, or, here's something I'm kind of curious about. I mean, there's all kinds of resources out there that can, uh, drip questions for you to help kind of steer towards it. But my wife and I just use the, how are we stewarding our sex life? Well, right now, every often on just how we doing?

[00:23:46] How are you doing? Here's how I'm doing, are we connected with this or not? And that's just a good kind of touch point to know.

[00:23:53] Um, okay. Yeah, I'm gonna have to do some research on questions. My husband and I, a long time ago, we actually got it, the gift from somebody. And I think that was a little bit awkward, but it was a gift where, you know, it was a couple's game where sort of do that, but you ask each other questions like one of the first questions though that he got was, what is something your partner is useless at?

[00:24:14] And we were like, Hmm. I this is a good game. 

[00:24:19] This 

[00:24:19] Dr. Corey Allen: tough, 

[00:24:20] Shanenn Bryant: it, this is the wrong direction. Wrong direction. So, uh, yeah, we'll have to research some questions, uh, that, you know, we could bring up. You brought up though, saying, hey, I may throw something out there and it may not manifest for, you know, two, three days.

[00:24:38] We've kind of always heard. men are like microwaves. Women are like ovens. Is that really true? 

[00:24:45] Dr. Corey Allen: Uh, no, that's, that's, I mean, that is a stereotype to help make sense of the difference and typically have to do broad brush to talk about different, different dynamics. But, uh, the research and then my own experience with clients is roughly 30% of the clients I work with, the woman is the higher desire. So she's more of the microwave mentality and he's more of the crockpot and I, and we both can be both in various things in various ways. So, um. It's, it's not true entirely, but it's, it's an easy framework to realize, okay. I mean, I'm married to a tax accountant and so I, we've kind to where language becomes. I'll bring up, I don't ask if she's interested. I just announce an intention. I'm just like, hey, buckle up tonight. Or it depends on I'm being or get your defenses up 'cause I'm coming, or you know, something like that. And that way she knows full well, no, I'm not interested. Okay, perfect. I'm good with that. But it also has become this whole, hey. I, I'm interested, plan on some sex tonight. Okay. Or something. She's like, well, how much energy do you have to get me out of this and into that? And it's like,

[00:26:03] That's a 

[00:26:04] fair question.

[00:26:05] fair way to approach it because sometimes I'm like, I got all the energy you're gonna need, baby.

[00:26:09] Or sometimes it's like, yeah, I don't have that tonight. So how do it later. Okay.

[00:26:14] Shanenn Bryant: I love it. Like how much energy do you have to get me from this where I am right now being interested in that?

[00:26:21] Dr. Corey Allen: And also be careful that doesn't just put it all on my shoulders. She has to be doing some things to get herself there too. But it's a, it's a playful way to play with a dynamic

[00:26:34] again, if I'm having sex, that is largely just my partner's responsibility to get me somewhere that's not sex worth wanting.

[00:26:43] Shanenn Bryant: Right. 

[00:26:44] Dr. Corey Allen: Right. that's not value based and like, Ooh, yeah, there's gonna be an energy there. No, that's the whole, you're going to suck me dry eventually. And they're going to wear themselves out. And so it's that element of, all right, how do you look at this as, what am I bringing to the equation? It's the best parts of me.

[00:27:04] It's the sweetness of me. And how do I cultivate that? And sometimes where it's gonna, I got a little trouble getting there. Well then it, I just need to be honest. Say, look, I'm having trouble. I'm not there.

[00:27:15] And then my partner can maybe like, hey, I'll help. Or it could be, okay, well you want to wait till later. And then you kind of negotiate. You figure it out. And that's the way, that's the collaborate. That's a collaborative moment. Then regardless of how it is.

[00:27:29] Shanenn Bryant: Is it because a lot of times we get offended or hurt if the person turns us down?

[00:27:36] Right? We take it personally.

[00:27:40] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, but that also could mean then I need to look at what is, what I'm offering or seeking? Really saying how are they interpreting it because. Some of what I will tell people is I need to have as a higher desire partner, which that's me. I need to make sure the sex I'm seeking is worth wanting. Right? Because it could be my lower desire. Spouse knows the sex we're having isn't worth it, right? It's just there's not, it's not good sex overall, it's just her propping me up. Keep stroking my ego, right? And so it's realizing, hold on. How am I presenting something that's worth being with in this instance of my life?

[00:28:29] How am I giving in a present and involved, as well as seeking what I'm after? You know? Because, because it's more than just your turn, my turn,

[00:28:39] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:40] Dr. Corey Allen: It actually is a collaboration all the way through that each side needs to bring up and be a part of.

[00:28:47] Shanenn Bryant: So, I, I think I know my audience pretty well and the person listening to this podcast, podcast, they're gonna think, well, gosh, I would love to dress sexy or do something, you know, for my partner, but they have already seen 30 examples of that before the 10 o'clock news on tv. You know, that's in their mind, they're thinking, and bringing up this comparison. So they're holding back like, ugh, no. 

[00:29:12] What would you say to that person?

[00:29:13] Dr. Corey Allen: I would say they have not seen you in that.

[00:29:17] Shanenn Bryant: Hmm

[00:29:18] Dr. Corey Allen: It’s a whole different thing there. Right.

[00:29:21] Yeah. We get bombarded with all sides of this equation as we go through the day, and if we're on our phones or on TV or computers at all, you get bombarded by both sexes. You know, it's, it's, it's nonstop, so of course, but there is nobody that replicates you that is a as unique and powerful as you.

[00:29:45] There is something incredibly alluring about that. When I'm more comfortable in my own skin, I that can't be replicated. Right? It's like it, it doesn't matter. You could see all these other people out there wearing the exact same outfit, but you're with me, which is a whole lot more than just the outside.

[00:30:04] Shanenn Bryant: Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.

[00:30:05] Dr. Corey Allen: And that takes a growing into of, of my own self. That's kind of what we've been talking about. It's, it's the challenging myself and growing myself up creates a different kind of swagger in how I carry myself, which that's alluring in a long-term relationship.

[00:30:22] Shanenn Bryant: I'm glad that you said long term because that is the part of it, right? I know this person just, it's not just this physical thing, it's outside of it and it's everything that makes up this person that makes it so much, you know, greater than, okay, yes, I've seen 29 other things, 

[00:30:39] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah.

[00:30:40] Yeah. 

[00:30:40] Shanenn Bryant: this is what makes this really good.

[00:30:42] Dr. Corey Allen: Yeah, because there's so much more. I mean, that's the, so 15 years in and 30 years in, for me, I know I can look at my wife across the room and we can just share a glance and just know what's going on or like, look at what we've been through, look at who we are, look at where we are, you know, and it's, there's an element of just a knowing and being known that's just warm in that regard. 

[00:31:07] And so when you bring that. Into the equation. There's a power there that it, it can't be defeated in a lot of ways because it's like, yeah, you could choose a lot of things, but it's going to be a poor choice. It'd be bad judgment to choose what I'm offering here. Uh.

[00:31:25] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. And what a way to come at it, right? Hey,

[00:31:31] Dr. Corey Allen: Well, yeah, I mean I've gotten to where, what, what turned the corner some with me is the higher desire was I'd make a move and she's like, yeah, I'm really not interested. Okay, you're we're gonna miss something really pretty good, babe. I had a lot of energy, kind of was okay and that's fine.

[00:31:45] And kind of being playful and then treat her well. Don't be pouty and angry, just, okay, I get it. Because if you can't, as a higher desire, I mean, I'm sure some of your listeners will be the higher desire partner.

[00:31:58] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah.

[00:32:01] Dr. Corey Allen: Then you're not gonna hear a yes as well either.  So it's recognizing No, no, no, I want, I want the essence of each of us in this, not just the act. And sometimes, yeah, we just want the act and I just need to be clean that too. 

[00:32:17] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah.

[00:32:17] Dr. Corey Allen: for the long haul, we want, we want the deeper part of us.

[00:32:21] Shanenn Bryant: Well, and I'm sure there's a little intrigue that comes with that when you say, okay, well I was, you know, I had a lot energy for you. I'm sure it's like, well, we'll wait. 

[00:32:29] Dr. Corey Allen: Too late that, that sitting. No, I wouldn't say too late.

[00:32:33] I'd 

[00:32:33] oh no, it's 

[00:32:34] Shanenn Bryant: Uh, too 

[00:32:34] late. You get one offer. 

[00:32:37] Dr. Corey Allen: Act now before it goes away, you know. Call now.

[00:32:42] Shanenn Bryant: Oh my gosh. Corey Allen, where can people find you?

[00:32:46] Dr. Corey Allen: Uh, so Sexy Marriage Radio is the podcast We do, uh, it comes out every Wednesdays. Uh, we've been going for over 12 years now, so it's SMR FM is my online home. So think of like your radio dial, so SMR for Sex Marriage radio fm, and you'll find us as well as, Hey, you can work with me. My book, courses, we have, we have a whole community called the SMR Nation, um, that is very, very supportive and helpful for each other.  And so there's, there's a lot of things we have going on and just we try help.

[00:33:22] Shanenn Bryant: Well, thank you so much. Thank you for the work that you both you and your wife are doing, and congratulations on 30 plus years of marriage. so much for being here.