Why Your Friends Don't Freak Out Like You w/ Jessica DaSilva EP 89

[00:00:00] Jessica DaSilva: Welcome to the Top Self Podcast. My name is Shanenn Bryant. I'm so excited for my guest today, I have none other than Jessica DaSilva, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist and attachment coach. Welcome, Jessica.

[00:00:16] Jessica DaSilva: Thank you so much, Shanenn, for having me on here. I'm excited to, to be here and have another conversation with you.

[00:00:23] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. So good to see you again. I know a lot of things have changed and happened in your world and you've got some exciting things starting. So we'll definitely talk about that at the end, if you want to go ahead and talk about what you've got going on we can certainly do that. I did want to start, although this audience is pretty familiar with attachment styles, we may have someone new so it's always good to get a refresher and to hear from you what exactly is an attachment style.

[00:00:53] Jessica DaSilva: The way that I see it is the way in which we experience love and relationships. So, I focus more on the realm of how we experience love, like partnership. but it translates into all types of relationships. So, friendships, family dynamics, co working dynamics. So, I'll explain it in the way that I teach it, but, really how we experience love and bonding, to another, to someone that we have an emotional connection or dependency with. and there's really, there's four different styles of the way in which we experience this love or experience relationships.

[00:01:27] Jessica DaSilva: There’s anxious attachment. I'm sure you guys have already heard of these, right? But there's the anxious attachment. There's dismissive avoidant attachment, fearful avoidant attachment, which was my attachment style for most of my life and secure attachment style. And we're not fixed to any of these ways of experiencing love. We can definitely work on shifting it and becoming more secure so that's really exciting. And that's what I help my clients in doing.

[00:01:53] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, because I think that's everybody's biggest question when they hear the attachment styles, especially after they figure out which one they are, and it's one of the insecure attachment styles, they go, Oh, can I switch? Am I able to get to secure? And the answer is yes, through someone like you to help them do that.

[00:02:12] Shanenn Bryant: And… I wanted to say… I meet you on fearful avoidant. So, I'm curious, do you mind sharing maybe where that attachment style came from for you before we start diving into how do we get to secure

[00:02:25] Jessica DaSilva: Totally. So And do you mean for the fearful avoidance specifically? 

[00:02:30] Shanenn Bryant: For you specifically?

[00:02:32] Jessica DaSilva: me. Yeah. So with my attachment style, it came from, so fearful avoidance often have both anxious and avoidant tendencies. And my fearful avoidant came from just more like macro levels of trauma. So there was some physical abuse with my caregivers, obviously a lot of emotional verbal abuse. So, my wonderful woman. Love her to death. However, she was also really scary.

[00:03:00] Jessica DaSilva: So, coming from a Brazilian household, the disciplinary tactics that they take can be scary and very enforcing in that way and so I always saw my mom as, like my source of safety, but also my source of fear. So, I didn't know like when she would be in a good mood. I didn't know when she would get angry. It was very unpredictable. It was very inconsistent. She was a very emotional. woman, right? Who didn't really know how to self soothe. So that kind of, influenced the fearful avoidant attachment where it was like the anxious part of me longed for her and wanted that connection.

[00:03:38] Jessica DaSilva: But then there's the avoidant part of me that was like, Ooh, that's too much. I can't tolerate that. I'm in danger, right? You want too much from me.

[00:03:46] Shanenn Bryant: That's really how fearful avoidant shows up or can become, right? I want the love and attention because sometimes it's really good, but then sometimes it can be scary, and it sounds like that's how it was in your situation.

[00:03:59] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah, definitely. So, then you adopt this behavior, this very hot and cold behavior, a lot of ambivalence, a lot of disorganization, a lot of inner confliction and confusion because there's these two parts of you, one that's longing for this connection and another piece that's like really afraid of it at the same time.

[00:04:19] Jessica DaSilva: So that impacted my Romantic relationships in the sense that I would also find people that were like that. I would sabotage in a lot of ways because I would show a lot of interest and then pull away. It was just so hot and cold, so confusing, so unpredictable, so inconsistent. And it just wasn't sustainable.

[00:04:39] Jessica DaSilva: It wasn't healthy at all.

[00:04:41] Shanenn Bryant: And so what got you into this work? Because a lot of times it does have to do with, I have this problem of my own that I need to solve, but how did you get to be a licensed marriage and family therapist? 

[00:04:57] Jessica DaSilva: It was really the upbringing, right? And just wanting to understand why am I the way I am? Like, where is this coming from? Because I see my friends who are not acting the way I do. They're not as reactive like me. They seem to be more stable. They seem to be more a little bit more put together emotionally.

[00:05:15] Jessica DaSilva: Like, why am I this way? Because I didn't really have those role models growing up, my mom was also fearful avoidant. My dad was more dismissive. I was like, I'm going to go to school and I'm going to learn about this. Because I know that there's a better way. I know that there's a different way of experiencing life and love. So, I got my bachelor's in psychology and that's where it all kind of started, started learning about human behavior and was fascinated by it and how we can, how we all, you know, just how humans function and the way we think and our patterns and our habits. I thought it was fascinating. And then I went into marriage and family therapy specifically because my whole life has been. Like a learning lesson with love. I have just always been in relationships. so went into that and that, I think it was through grad school, working with couples and working with individuals and really learning the tools that I was able to see, okay, wait a second. If we can just shift our mindset, if we can learn these relationship skills. We can also become secure and healthy. So that's where it all happened.

[00:06:24] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, I completely understand that. And I think, a lot of times the people listening to this podcast are like, yeah, my friends aren't worried about this woman who is working with their husband or their boyfriend, or my friend doesn't mind if there's half naked women on TV, but for some reason, they're not.

[00:06:45] Shanenn Bryant: We do. And it's so hard to feel different. Nobody wants to feel like, oh, why can't I be like everyone else? And so that's where sometimes these attachment styles will come into play. A hundred percent. And I've been seeing that a lot with my sister. So, my sister's married. They have such a secure relationship, but she falls more avoidant. Whereas I fall more anxious and they'll just like outwardly talk about hot girls and hot guys and me in the past, that would have been so triggering because I fall more anxious.

[00:07:17] Jessica DaSilva: So for me, it's just more, Oh, that's, and we've talked about this on my podcast when you came on, but that's a huge threat, my, my partner saying that someone else is really attractive to me, that's just very alarming, but for her. It doesn't really compute. It just doesn't really bother her so it's interesting to see how our attachment styles can influence the way we perceive things.

[00:07:41] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:07:44] Shanenn Bryant: I fall more on the anxious side too. So, let's just talk about the anxious attachment style real quick. Do you mind just sharing a little bit of an overview on the anxious since we just talked about fearful avoidance?

[00:07:57] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah. So anxious attachers generally need a lot of closeness and connection and validation and reassurance in their relationships, but it becomes self-sabotaging when it becomes excessive, right? Because we can't depend on always for these needs to get met by another person, we end up pushing them away.

[00:08:18] Jessica DaSilva: We end up becoming resentful, bitter, possessive, controlling, jealous. So we really have to learn how to find a healthy balance of meeting our needs ourselves. And also meeting our needs for a partner in a realistic, balanced way, right? And then do you want me to talk about the avoidance or do you, should we stick to, should we stick to

[00:08:41] Shanenn Bryant: I had a question about the anxious attachment style real quick, because I think I see this a lot, but especially it shows up when it comes to boundaries or what I've seen in terms of if, Someone with, who is an anxious person, maybe they're in a relationship with, whatever other attachment style, but that person sets a boundary.

[00:09:02] Shanenn Bryant: not even something so strict, but oh, I have laundry to do, so I can't come over again tonight. Or, hey, I'd love to come over, but I really have to study, or I've got an early morning, whatever that is. An anxious person, I see them like almost feel offended by someone doing that because to them they'd do anything to see that person.

[00:09:26] Shanenn Bryant: Can you talk about that a little bit? What's behind that?

[00:09:29] Jessica DaSilva: Ah, yeah. So there's a couple things with that. Oftentimes anxious attachments. And this is detrimental in a lot of ways. Anxious attachers often believe that the way that I give love is the way that others should give and express love to. So, there's this kind of unrealistic expectation element. to giving and receiving love because they're seeing it from their experience and their perception and their ways of showing love versus this other unique human that experiences love very differently and maybe has very different needs or different ways of giving and receiving love. And so when someone isn't meeting that expectation, it's so disappointing.

[00:10:11] Jessica DaSilva: And it might mean to them like, oh my God, I guess you don't love me because you're not showing love the way I show love. That must mean you don't love me. You don't care about me as much as I care about you.

[00:10:21] Jessica DaSilva: So there's that element, which is really big and also anxious attachments. Again, they're operating from these core belief systems around. I'm not good enough. I am not lovable. I'm not important enough for you. So, if you're operating from those belief systems, anything that might indicate disconnection or, not being included or, canceling plans or whatever the situation is, it might trigger those belief systems.

[00:10:49] Jessica DaSilva: So it just changes your perception of the whole thing in a negative way.

[00:10:54] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Man, we definitely do it like, oh, why can't they just do what I like? Why can't everybody think the way that I think and just do what I think is appropriate in this situation, right?

[00:11:08] Jessica DaSilva: I had this conversation with my mom, Shanenn, the other day. Falls very, I mean, fearful, avoidant, but like very anxious. And she's, she's helping my sister out with the baby right now. So she's staying at their house and she's like, I don't understand how your sister just doesn't know that.

[00:11:25] Jessica DaSilva: I need a little bit of time when I get back from work. I just need a little bit of space. I'm like, mom. you need to communicate that to her. You can't expect her to just know that and then get upset that she's not addressing that with you. You need to communicate because not everyone thinks the same as you or anticipates the same things as you.

[00:11:45] Jessica DaSilva: So when it leads to that, resentment and bitterness and disappointment, You know that that's something you want to address within yourself.

[00:11:54] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. That story can be so strong too. oh, if you loved me, you would do this. Or, you must not love me. Like, that's the gauge for people. Yeah.

[00:12:05] Jessica DaSilva: So when I work with couples, that's one of the biggest things that we touch on is first of all, understanding that we all experience love differently, You have very different needs. They have very different needs but learning how to be proactive versus reactive. So, the reactivity is I'm going to get angry.

[00:12:22] Jessica DaSilva: I'm going to be passive aggressive. I'm just going to hope that you catch on to how I'm feeling, but I'm not going to communicate it with you. Whereas proactivity is taking responsibility for your feelings and needs and just communicating it and teaching people how to love you, teaching people how to better treat you and support you.

[00:12:42] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. before we move on to dismissive avoidance, I have a question about that because you work with couples and I'm curious, is there one thing that you see that shows up time and time again when couples are struggling? Like, is there something where if, gosh, if couples would just do this.  Is there something that stands out like that?

[00:13:00] Jessica DaSilva: I think that's really what it is. It's just.. stop anticipating them to know what your needs are and just communicate it. It doesn't mean that they don't love you. if you're communicating, because often people, sometimes people have this idea that if I communicate my needs and they just, they have to learn how to love me, do they really love me?

[00:13:26] Jessica DaSilva: And it's if they're willing to do these things for you, it's because they love you. And a lot of the times people can't, or, they don't anticipate our needs or they can't for whatever reason. So it's really just helping people understand that it's okay to communicate your needs. And that if someone's willing to do that for you, then that's a beautiful sign that they love you and they're committed.

[00:13:50] Shanenn Bryant: Oh, thanks so much for that because, yeah, I remember the days of being like, if I have to tell them, then it's no good. if I have to tell them, then it doesn't mean as much. And that's definitely not the case, right? it's, I may have to tell them and I may have to remind them even, but if they're doing it, what you're saying is that is showing that love,

[00:14:16] Jessica DaSilva: Oh my gosh, a hundred percent, because if they don't, if they're not willing, if they're resistant, if they're defensive, then that just goes to show the health of the relationship, right? and the sense of like compatibility in the relationship. And that speaks volumes, right? Cause maybe that's just not the right relationship for you and you're feeling resentful and all these things because you're with the wrong person.

[00:14:42] Jessica DaSilva: But if you are vocal about your feelings and needs and they're open and receptive and nurturing and willing, that's everything you can ask for, right?

[00:14:53] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. you mentioned dismissive. So let's move to dismissive avoidant attachment style. Let's talk about that one.

[00:15:00] Jessica DaSilva: So dismissive avoidance and anxious attachments are often, that's like the cliche dynamic.  So I'll tell you a little bit about the avoidance. So dismissive avoidant attachments, again, everyone's wired for attachment. So it's not to say that they don't want relationships.

[00:15:15] Jessica DaSilva: They're just, they don't really know how to operate within relationships. They have learned through their upbringing that it's safer to be alone. It's safer to just depend on myself. can't really rely on my caregivers. So I just have to be resourceful, self-sufficient, do things on my own. The thing is, as they get older, as they become an adult, they're operating from this very self-centered place because they had to be. So, they get into a relationship with someone who's more anxious because, wow, look at this person being so nurturing and giving and loving all these things that I never experienced. But now I don't know how to maintain this. I don't know how to give this love back. And at some point, your anxious partner is going to be like, Hey, where's my love? Where's the return here? And they just don't have those. They don't have those tools. And a lot of them just don't have. The willingness or the capacity to want to do those things for their partner.

[00:16:10] Jessica DaSilva: So you see a lot of like single avoidance in the dating realm, a lot of avoidance out there.

[00:16:16] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, so that anxious person is just pouring into them because that's what they do to show, let me just dump all this love because I, that's how I show it. And then you're saying the dismissive avoidance, okay, I like it at first, but then, whoa. And I don't know how to return this, which makes the anxious person even more anxious.

[00:16:39] Jessica DaSilva: A hundred percent. because when you look at the different stages of a relationship after that honeymoon stage and you're going to like the power struggle stage, that's often when you start communicating or you're more vocal about your needs. So when the anxious stage, starts to become more vocal with their needs.

[00:16:56] Jessica DaSilva: That's when they see the avoidant kind of pulling away because now the avoidant is overwhelmed. Now the avoidant is being bombarded with these belief systems around, I'm going to let you down. I am a disappointment. And that's usually what causes them to withdraw even more. So you see a lot of, conflict in that stage because of those different needs.

[00:17:19] Shanenn Bryant: So easy to see why those two might, both might get together, but then also why they would have so many problems in the relationship.

[00:17:28] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah. So those are the couples that I usually see. It's often, the avoidant and the anxious. Yeah.

[00:17:38] Shanenn Bryant: Wow. okay, so then anything we want to, because we touched a little bit on fearful avoidance because we were talking about your specific situation, but anything you want to share on that style specifically that maybe we didn't talk about.

[00:17:51] Jessica DaSilva: So, with the fearful avoidance, it's again, it's like they have that desire for love and connection, but they're also afraid of it at the same time. fearful avoidance. Usually it's like, I guess in my experience, it's always been like those rollercoaster relationships where you have those like intense highs and intense lows, and so much of like their wounding is around, betrayal, feeling like they're being taken advantage of, and again, that often comes from just unhealthy relationship dynamics with their attachment figures and feeling like they couldn't really trust them.

[00:18:26] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. I see a lot of fearful avoidance with the jealousy. that's of course, that betrayal wound is so big for them.

[00:18:35] Jessica DaSilva: Yep. Yeah. And that was, and we talked a lot about this too, but, that was huge for me was the jealousy. That was such a big piece. And that would often be a reason why I would really sabotage my relationships was because I experienced so much jealousy, any pretty girl, any girl that was like talented or cooler than me or smarter than me, it was just. it just felt like such a big threat to my relationship.

[00:19:05] Shanenn Bryant: I hear it a lot of I'm just going to break up because I can't handle feeling this way. I'm driving my partner nuts. And so I'm out. I just, I'm going to just break up

[00:19:16] Jessica DaSilva: Yep. Yep. And that's tough. That sucks. If you feel as though, man, I have to just exit this relationship because it's too overwhelming and too overbearing. And, but yeah, that's, that's a real feeling. It's a real experience. I felt that way too. Again, I would sabotage to the point where I would, push them away so that they didn't have to be with me and have to deal with this.

[00:19:41] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, and even, I think some people will take it, not everyone, of course, but even people will take it to the extremes of cheating in that relationship to even just I'm going to sabotage it. I'm going to, do something or I'm going to do something to them before they do that to me or to make it not hurt so much.

[00:20:04] Jessica DaSilva: Exactly.

[00:20:06] Shanenn Bryant: Unhealthy strategies for sure.

[00:20:08] Jessica DaSilva: So it's fascinating. And I think that's why attachment science is so interesting and insightful because it helps you understand. Cause a lot of the time you're like, wow, I'm just insane. I'm just messed up in the head.

[00:20:19] Jessica DaSilva: But no, it's really because you learn these really unhealthy maladaptive ways of relating and experiencing love. and yeah, it's influencing. Your relationships currently. So I think having that understanding takes away a lot of the shame that we experience and we realize, okay, wait, I, maybe I can do something about this, maybe I'm not doomed forever. Like I can actually address these things in a healthy way.

[00:20:45] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah, because it certainly feels that way. It's oh my gosh, I'm so much different than all my friends. When I try to explain it to my friends, they don't get it. They are like, what are you, you know, what is your problem? What are you worried about? And then it's just feeling like, uh, as much as I want to not, be this way, I would convince myself every time we went out, I'm not going to get jealous this time.

[00:21:10] Shanenn Bryant: And, one little thing, one cute blonde waitress, and it was all over.

[00:21:16] Jessica DaSilva: I'm glad that you brought that up too, Shanenn, because when I work with clients too, a lot of the time there's this factor of, it sucks that I have to do this extra work. to stay stable and to stay like regulated. And yeah, it does take a little bit extra effort for us previous insecure attachers.

[00:21:40] Jessica DaSilva: We're still dealing with these things to have to regulate ourselves and to have to stay aligned and, in a good headspace so that we're not so activated or triggered or reactive, does require some effort. on our parts on a kind of consistent basis. 

[00:21:57] Shanenn Bryant: Cause I think it's one of those things, yeah, you almost, Always really have to work on it to some degree so we can definitely, and you're going to talk about this in just a second, hopefully share a couple tips with us of how we move into what everybody, feels like they want to be in that secure attachment style.

[00:22:14] Shanenn Bryant: But yeah, putting that work in and going, Oh, I, I have to do more work than my friends, or this is where. My pieces, but other people may have something else. there are people deal with so many things, but I get it. It's why do I have to do this work?

[00:22:33] Jessica DaSilva: And it does get better. I know, I'm sure you've experienced this with you too, in your relationship, like in the beginning, it might feel like we're doing a lot. and then eventually just becomes more second nature to a sense we realize, Oh, wow, there's enough evidence here to prove that my partner is actually a good person and they're stable and they're

[00:22:52] Jessica DaSilva: secure, So I think it's just the more evidence that we can create. by doing these activities and practices, the easier it becomes, the more reliable

[00:23:02] Shanenn Bryant: Yeah. Yeah. okay. So, I know you, you have a great question that you, it's your tagline question or what you ask, what would secure me do? Which I think is a fantastic question. It's something that we can all use and think about when we are in what may be one of those situations where we feel triggered by something like, what would secure me do?

[00:23:25] Shanenn Bryant: But I wanted to say, what would being secure do for me? Can you talk about that a little bit?

[00:23:33] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah, so that, I have a little mug here. What would secure me to?

[00:23:39] Shanenn Bryant: That's so cute. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:41] Jessica DaSilva: Again, it's a daily reminder. It really is. I always think it's important to create an environment that's safe for everyone. That's nourishing and helpful in that way. But so this really came from again, not having that blueprint or navigation system and then just learning the mindset and learning the tools to align with my secure self. So, secure you, it's going to look different for everyone based on your Set of values and your belief systems and, your needs. but it's always just, secure you is always confident. You're right, self-assured, compassionate and flexible. So those are like my go tos. but when I think of secure me, so you can always kind of gauge when you're acting from an insecure place. where it's a bit more reactive versus a secure place where it's proactive. So whenever I'm feeling triggered, I know what insecure me would do. Like we know what those self-sabotaging patterns are.

[00:24:43] Jessica DaSilva: So, in those moments, my tools and my go to is always to regulate myself first and foremost. So, like those deep breaths, right?

[00:24:51] Jessica DaSilva: Secure me is… let me just check in. Let me take some deep breaths. I'll do like an anchoring technique, which is an NLP technique. and then I'll, I'll ask myself, what am I feeling right now? Always checking in with my feelings and needs. What am I feeling? What do I need right now to feel better? also in those moments, it's challenging the insecurity. So if for instance, it's, Oh my God, my partner's checking out that girl. It must mean that he's interested in her. Like he wants to be with her, right? I'll ask myself, and this comes from, Byron Katie's work, but I'll ask myself, is that thought a hundred percent true, Jessica?

[00:25:31] Jessica DaSilva: Can I absolutely know that my partner wants to be with that woman? Oftentimes? No, I can't absolutely know. And then I'll ask myself if I could remove this thought from my consciousness right now, how would I experience this moment differently with my partner. Wow, I would just, I would just be more present. I would be more present. Okay, cool. How do I want to approach, how can I align with my secure self right now in that moment? And then it usually comes from being more present, right? It comes from maybe telling myself an affirmation. Hey Jess, we're good. We're safe. so I think that main question there is if I can remove This thought from my experience right now, how would I approach this differently?

[00:26:19] Jessica DaSilva: And I think that question there really helps me see what is coming from insecurity versus what is coming from my secure self. Because I see that I have control over my thoughts and my experiences. If I'm able to just remove it from my current reality, it goes to show that I have some control over it. 

[00:26:41] Shanenn Bryant: Oh my gosh, so good. what a great question to be able to ask yourself in the moment because those stories that just oh, let me just keep feeding this because we may not have other tools available. That we know to bring into what we're experiencing. So, what a great question that we can ask.

[00:27:03] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah, and sometimes too, and it's not to say that that's going to work every time, sometimes if something is still lingering, if a feeling is still lingering, if a worry is still lingering for more than a day or something, then I'll probably address it, and I'll communicate my feelings and needs. But if that can work for me in the moment, that's always my go to. So I always try to meet the need for validation or reassurance on my own by doing that. If I'm still feeling triggered, if I'm still feeling activated, then I will address it with whoever it is.

[00:27:38] Shanenn Bryant: So you had mentioned like, what do I need right now? So what do I need in this moment? What do I need right now? Can you talk about how we figure that out a little bit? Because maybe I might not know What it is that I really need. Are there some sort of steps we can take to get down to what I need right now?

[00:28:00] Jessica DaSilva: Yeah. David Rico talks about, different types of needs, which I really appreciate. He has, he wrote the book, how to be an adult in relationships, and he talks extensively about these relationship needs, but essentially, your feelings. I'm going to, they're going to guide you to your needs.

[00:28:18] Jessica DaSilva: Your feelings are indicating to you needs that are going met or unmet. So it's kind of a practice, but I like to use like a feelings wheel and I'll identify, okay, I'm feeling angry. I'm feeling angry right now. And then I'll ask myself, why am I feeling angry? Why am I feeling angry? And what do I need to feel better? So maybe it is that I'm feeling angry because someone didn't respect my boundary, whatever boundary that was. What do I need? I need respect. I need consideration. I need thoughtfulness. So then in those moments, I might communicate, and this comes from, Nonviolent Communication, another really great book by Marshall Rosenberg. He talks about communicating your feelings and needs proactively in, in a way where you communicate, hey, this is what I'm feeling, this is why I'm feeling this way, and this is what I need. From you or this is what I would appreciate from you. So it's always checking in, right? What am I feeling? Why am I feeling this way?

[00:29:19] Jessica DaSilva: What do I need to feel better? Sometimes I'll take initiative and try to meet the need myself, maybe through an affirmation or a mantra, or I'll read something, or I'll Google something and that's enough. Other times I need to have a conversation with the person and that's when I'll communicate in that form.

[00:29:41] Shanenn Bryant: And I like that communication piece because sometimes we don't want to be vulnerable. I don't want to tell them that this is what I'm thinking, but then we do so many other things because of it. that can damage the relationship when it might have just been much easier to say, Hey, here is what is going on.

[00:30:03] Shanenn Bryant: Here's the way I'm feeling. This is what I need from you in this moment. Because then we also, a lot of times, I'm sure you see this being, being a family therapist, that we make people guess. Like my husband, I remember him being like, just tell me what it is. Just what is it? Cause I can tell something's wrong. So what is it?

[00:30:24] Jessica DaSilva: Exactly. And that's the unrealistic expectation, right? That people should just know. They should just anticipate what I'm feeling and needing. And we really have to change our belief systems and our perception of that. Because that's really not healthy. And it's really just counterproductive to the health of your relationship.  The best approach to be proactive would be to, again, address it.

[00:30:55] Jessica DaSilva: if it's not being met, if they're not anticipating, if they're not knowing that it's upsetting you, And it's a lingering experience. Just address it. That's you being proactive versus reactive.

[00:31:07] Shanenn Bryant: Love it Jessica, thank you so much for being on Top Self. You're amazing. Go check out Jessica's podcast. It's so good. Your podcast is wonderful. So thank you so much for doing it and helping people. It's called Let's Talk Attachments. So check out Jessica's podcast. Thank you, Jessica.

[00:31:26] Jessica DaSilva: Thank you so much, Shanenn. Appreciate you.